Author Topic: "Best" RPG Citybooks  (Read 4229 times)

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Offline egdcltd

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"Best" RPG Citybooks
« on: June 14, 2014, 03:03:23 PM »
Which citybooks, for any setting, genre, or system, would you consider to be the "best" and why? I've read quite a few, and would like to know what people think.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2014, 03:29:04 AM »
Ptolus because of the sheer size and level of detail.  It's almost, but not quite, my dream supplement.
Eidolon is up there too almost just for the maps, but there's a decent amount of detail in there too.
Lastly the City Books from Flying Buffalo.  Pretty basic stuff, but it fills in a lot of the mundane details.

One of my goals is to someday write up a decent sized city so that I'd say about at least 1 in 3 structures/shops/buildings is covered in some level of detail (goods, services, owner, staff/employees, etc), but still generic enough to be dropped into any world.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 03:59:02 AM »
I have Ptolus. In PoD hardback. Only supplement I have that also qualifies as a lethal weapon. What do you think it needs to make it perfect?

The ones I've read, or re-read, recently are Ptolus, Minas Ithil, Minas Tirith, Parsantium, Dolmvay, Greyhaw boxed set, Warhammer City and Norek.

I haven't properly read Eidolon or Haalkitaine, mostly because I'm waiting for the updated versions.

I'll take a look at the Flying Buffalo stuff.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2014, 04:19:50 AM »
You really just can't go wrong with most the ICE MERP stuff.

My only gripe with Ptolus is a somewhat minor and possibly even slightly unrealistic one... I would have detailed out more of the buildings.  (Crazy, I know)
I also think I would have color coded the buildings with groups like: Inns and Taverns, Residential, Temples and Shrines, Goods and Services (and maybe even break that group down further) and so on.
- Cory Magel

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(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2014, 05:30:28 AM »
Darn, it looks like the Citybooks aren't available on RPGNow.

Regarding detailing all (or many) of the buildings, it looks like some prefer to not have that level of detail, but have more general stuff that can be fleshed out on the fly.
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Offline markc

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2014, 08:29:11 AM »
  In the past I have used, Forgotten Realms Water Deep in a few games, modified some of the MERP City books, used some Ebberon stuff for a game I had planed but did not get to run as I moved.
  But in most cases I just make my own and/or use real cit maps as aids.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 09:27:23 AM »
Waterdeep: City of Splendours (AD&D 2nd Edition version) is the next on my reading list.
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Offline markc

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2014, 11:47:55 AM »
I think I like the 2nd edition a lot better than the later books I saw, in fact I think there were two 2nd edition Waterdeep books. The one I preferred and used most often was the box set with a number of maps. At one time I had all of the city maps covering the wall of the house we gamed at. Boy that was a long time ago now that I think about it.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2014, 11:59:36 AM »
The one I've got is the boxed set. There was also an, earlier, Volo's Guide to Waterdeep for the 2nd Edition. Not sure if I have that one; I'd have to check.
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Offline markc

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2014, 02:36:02 PM »
I think I have a few of them, one was a large number of maps of the whole city, the second was 1 or 2 large maps that made up the city, the third was a book with a single map of the city and the last was Volo's guide I think. I had some disposable income back then and loved to read game stuff and convert it to the system I was using then.
I also think I have a 3rd edition which was fairly different then the 2ed edition stuff.

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Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 03:45:00 AM »
There was also the earlier, 1st edition, FR1 Waterdeep and the North.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2014, 04:12:11 AM »
Regarding detailing all (or many) of the buildings, it looks like some prefer to not have that level of detail, but have more general stuff that can be fleshed out on the fly.
I would leave at least 1/3rd of the city buildings open for GM's to put in their own stuff (that means about 2/3rd of it is, at least generically, fleshed out).  Even Ptolus, as awesome as it is, didn't get that ambitious.

Like I said, it's a crazy goal, but...

Ideally the players would say "We are looking for a middle range Inn/Tavern in this area" and I can point to a few, be very generic, or throw a name of a pre-prepped one on it that fits the bill.  But I'd like players to almost be able to look at the map, say "We go there. What's do they have?" and have a fairly ready to go answer for the GM if they want it.  There are ways to make that possible without having a book the size of the bible.

My plan is have at least three options for most possible results (general stores, weapon smiths, armor smiths, horse seller, gem dealer, you name it, etc, etc) and more results for other more common ones (inns, taverns, restaurants, etc).  One low end/cheap, one middle class, and one fancy/expensive.  But then also color code the map to designate types of businesses and have a few generic floor plans ready to go.  Maybe 3-5 different warehouse layouts, 3 general store layouts, maybe a dozen or so dwelling layouts, etc.

Basically a city that is generic enough in nature to drop into just about any game, but fleshed out enough that the GM hardly has to do anything aside from give the inhabitants that matter stats.

I've got a list I've been working on of approx 250 locations so far, not including residential structures.  I'm sure there's stuff I need to add (like I don't have livestock sellers or any street markets yet), but it's a work in progress.  Constant progress.  :)
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 05:57:10 AM »
One problem can be building plans. Ideally, you want to work off something historical (because that way it probably did the job it was supposed to, and so won't be "unrealistic"), but finding historical building layouts isn't easy.
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Offline tbigness

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2014, 09:19:17 AM »
I use the City of Carse as my default backdrop city to start with.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2014, 09:23:22 AM »
I use the City of Carse as my default backdrop city to start with.

Is that the one from Midkemia? Turns out I have the 1986 version of that; forgotten I had it.
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Offline tbigness

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2014, 09:35:51 AM »
The very one and it works out well as a beginning city. I also use it for my Morrowwind campaign city due to the detailed map and fleshed out city with my specific modifications of course.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2014, 09:53:06 AM »
It is a pretty detailed city, isn't it? I shall have to have a read of it.

Where in Morrowind are you campaigning? On the island, or the mainland?
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Offline markc

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2014, 10:05:22 AM »
Maybe I am thinking of the D&D 1 FR1 product as the last time I really used it was in late 80's when I used it for a game I was running my preferred system at the time.
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Offline egdcltd

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2014, 10:42:37 AM »
Maybe I am thinking of the D&D 1 FR1 product as the last time I really used it was in late 80's when I used it for a game I was running my preferred system at the time.
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Could be, City of Splendours wasn't published until the mid-90s (which probably makes it one of the last things I bought last century), and there was a fair bit of detail in FR1.
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Offline tbigness

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Re: "Best" RPG Citybooks
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2014, 12:33:31 PM »
It is a pretty detailed city, isn't it? I shall have to have a read of it.

Where in Morrowind are you campaigning? On the island, or the mainland?

I am just using a Morrowwind type scenario using Carse as the backdrop city they land in.
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