Topic: RMC vs. RMSS vs. RMFRP, which is your favorite and why?

[daddystabz]

Of the modern systems still in publication for Rolemaster, which is your favorite and why? RMC or RMSS (I assume this is modern and still in publication) or RMFRP?

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

I don't really use RM at the moment (though I have RM2 and RMSS).  I think in terms of the more modern versions I am most likely to use RMX with some options from Express Additions.  The other key change would be to have purchasable PP (rather than 10+effect of stat bonus as in RMX).

Regards

Edward

[Old Man]

Of the modern systems still in publication for Rolemaster, which is your favorite and why? RMC or RMSS (I assume this is modern and still in publication) or RMFRP?

RMC for me (as I still use RM2) but I do borrow some from RMSS (% action definitions, Static Action charts)

Ciao,
Old Man

[Marc R]

Are you trying to decide which version to buy, or just pouring some gas to see if a fire starts?

[David Johansen]

oops too late I'm here.

Honestly I think the break down is simply this:

If you like Rolemaster as D&D+ then you'll like RM2/C.

If you like Rolemaster as a constrained version of GURPS then you'll like RMSS / FRP.

I honestly think the philosophical divide is too vast to bridge.  We've done the go round again and again over the years and it doesn't seem to change, even now that everyone can agree that there needs to be a path forward from the morass it became.

[smug]

RMC, although I can add to it plenty of options from RM2 as I have all of that. I like it as a small core system -- although I far prefer the RM2 oldstyle page layout, the organisation of RMC is much better than RM2 -- that's expandable. I'm really hoping that the RMX additions come out again soon, I'm going to buy them all (can't believe I hadn't done already, but I guess I thought they'd always be there to buy on a whim).

RM2/C is my favourite game of all (ahead of Runequest/BRP). I loves it. Some of the reasoning isn't relevant here -- I have all the ICE Middle Earth stuff, for example, but that's not available very cheaply anymore -- but I like all of it, including its reported flaws. Well, other than the damn Empathy stat.

[yammahoper]

I liked them all.  They are all RM.

RM1 basically morphed into RM2 with a nice box set that but everything into one box and three books. 

RMSS was born from RM2.  Play them: they are all the same game with different options for handling everything from Stat generation and development points and power points and stat mods and skill cost...yet, the game remains the same.

I would never have spent as much time and money and storage space in my home on this system and hobby if I did not like Rolemaster, period.

The part I don't like is that while once materials were available, very GOOD materials, now the game is dried up.  We can talk RMC or RMFRP till we are blue in the face, fact is there is no walking into the hobby store and dropping $20 to $100 bucks on RM books with excellent writing and adventure hooks and setting and etc.  Yes, there is a trickle of stuff (albeit mostly usless for those of us who set aside RM2 and went full bore RMSS and retain most of that old RM2 stuff anyway), but even that stuff is inconsistant and mostly keyed toward providing old RM2 players with something they should have bought a long time ago (just how I feel; I STILL have 6 copies of arms law, down from a high of 12, all from the now old RM2 boxed sets, AND two RMSS arms laws, AND Ten Million Ways to Die...you get the picture, I've been there done that).

I'm more concerned with RM simply being here tomorrow with a supported system sitting on game store shelves for immediate purchase so some other 11 year old kid can find it and enjoy it.

[David Johansen]

Honestly, what concerns me is that if there is a new edition, it will preclude other support.  When you think about it this was a problem with RMC.  Getting the rules out took the full energy of ICE and very little other material came out for a long time because of it.  It's possible the edition wars wouldn't have gotten so bad if there hadn't been a two year dry spell for any other support as a result.

[daddystabz]

Is there some kind of rumor or actual talk about a new edition coming out?

[rdanhenry]

There's always a rumor. Creating a new edition, if done correctly, is a long-term process. Even an incremental update like the Call of Cthulhu model is something that deserves a year. Any RM reworking will be on a longer schedule than that. As a business reality, there's going to have to be a new RM, but that's in the longer term rather than the shorter term, given that the system is freshly into new hands.

[smug]

Honestly, what concerns me is that if there is a new edition, it will preclude other support.  When you think about it this was a problem with RMC.  Getting the rules out took the full energy of ICE and very little other material came out for a long time because of it.  It's possible the edition wars wouldn't have gotten so bad if there hadn't been a two year dry spell for any other support as a result.

RMC was produced with a lot of help from a group of fans, too, from pre-existing materials. Producing a new version would presumably require more effort.

[smug]

Is there some kind of rumor or actual talk about a new edition coming out?

There's been talk of it at least since RM2 was re-issued, although I think it's really been longer than that.

Personally, I'm not convinced it makes sense as it's currently portrayed, but it's bound to be one of the options under consideration when the question of "how do we make money?" is considered.

[djmarvanek]

I like RMX/RMC

It has all the key concepts that make RM better than other systems (e.g. crit system and spell system) without the rules bloat of later RM rulesets (e.g. RMSS)

e.g. I've always thought it overkill to have separate skills for
alertness
sense ambush
awareness hearing
awareness vision
etc

A single perception skill is this case is more than adequate.

[Athelstaine]

I like all versions and own all versions. My group is very understandable on this topic. Everything i like about Standard is an option in one of the companions, so i can play either/or.

With that said when the other gm runs RM he uses RM2 and i use RMFRP. Never bought into the whole one system is better than the other. We just go with the flow.

I will say i have condensed some categories and got rid of some really redundant skills though.

[yammahoper]

I like all versions and own all versions. My group is very understandable on this topic. Everything i like about Standard is an option in one of the companions, so i can play either/or.

With that said when the other gm runs RM he uses RM2 and i use RMFRP. Never bought into the whole one system is better than the other. We just go with the flow.

I will say i have condensed some categories and got rid of some really redundant skills though.

Yep.

[smug]

I just GMed using RMX (two days ago) to introduce new players. I loved it (although I need to either up character combat stats or else reduce the opponent stats).

I'm now really hoping that the RM Express Additions get re-released soon. Maybe if I paypal ICE a bunch of cash they'll send them to me in email (rather than having to sell through OBS, which apparently requires significant effort such that I shouldn't expect it to happen soon at best)...

[Cory Magel]

For the most part what you are going to see is...

Some people see RMSS as better organized, some see RM2 as more complete and so on.  But whatever system the fan "grew up with" (i.e. learned and used originally) is typically the one they are going to favor, but will likely borrow stuff from the other system versions.

RM has really only had two versions in the eyes of most the fans, those being RM2/RMC and RMSS/RMFRP.  In my opinion if you already knew RM2 like the back of your hand then there was really no reason to move to RMSS.  Even if you thought the system was a logistical mess in organization and possible balance (due to so much expansion) if you are an extremely experienced GM and have been playing it for years you've probably already made modifications to correct whatever you thought was wrong.

Personally I like RMSS and think it's better organized and balanced... however that could very well be because (while we used RM2 material in our D&D days) we started actually playing RM as a full system with RMSS.  It does lack many of the expansions put out for RM2, but once you really know what you're doing you can convert stuff over.

[markc]

 I think I am in the minority as I started with RM2 and while playing in a RM2 game I picked up RMSS as I had trouble finding the RM2 books. After reading the books I found the RMSS system better to my needs and desires.
MDC

[Kristen Mork]

I think I am in the minority as I started with RM2 and while playing in a RM2 game I picked up RMSS as I had trouble finding the RM2 books. After reading the books I found the RMSS system better to my needs and desires.
MDC

I dunno.  I started playing RM2 back in the 80s, and switched to RMSS in the 90s.  Some decades later, I rarely bother to play RM2.  So, I'm another RMSS fan that grew up on RM2.

[yammahoper]

I think I am in the minority as I started with RM2 and while playing in a RM2 game I picked up RMSS as I had trouble finding the RM2 books. After reading the books I found the RMSS system better to my needs and desires.
MDC

I dunno.  I started playing RM2 back in the 80s, and switched to RMSS in the 90s.  Some decades later, I rarely bother to play RM2.  So, I'm another RMSS fan that grew up on RM2.

Dittto.