Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => RMC/RM2 => Topic started by: Heilemann on March 04, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
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So I'm considering starting a MERP campaign, but entertaining the idea of using RM2 as the rule system.
If you've done this, which considerations did you make? For instance, for char gen how did you mitigate the missing starting packages (things e.g. specific to a Rohiric warrior)? Are there any major issues using MERP stetted NPCs and creatures with RM2?
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I'm doing this now and we did this for years back in the 90s. Stats are mostly transferable. Many of the MERP projects even have stat blocks for RM. It works pretty well.
I wouldn't worry too much about starting packages. Just make the characters. Hobbies and half levels can fill in the blanks. There are also the set background options which give free ranks. If you really want to map the starting packages you could force players to trade in some of their background options to accomodate.
A couple of considerations:
- You may (or may not) want to fiddle with the magic level: take some classes out, add them in from companions, etc. We never took them away, but some people think it's necessary. For example, Tolkien doesn't really have a lot of clerics and healers running around. That doesn't mean they can't exist, though.
- Races as listed in RM2 don't completely match up. Here's a thread about that. (http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=19630.0) I make some attempts to map them to one another.
- You may also want to ignore the background options given in MERP in favor of rolling or picking from the charts.
For the realms of magic I've defined it in terms of the Song of Arda.
- Channeling lets the song flow through you from a greater power. Essentially you're a radio.
- Essence is the manipulation of the song itself. Words and gestures are your instruments.
- Mentalism is the deep connection between the song and all life. In this case, you. Basically you're the paper the notes are recorded on.
Note: that doesn't mean magic uses literal songs. It's just a metaphor. Only bards use definitely use songs. Others can use them or not as they see fit.
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When I first started playing RM2 in the early 90's the GMs were using MERP books and kept flipping to those for certain aspects of the RM2 game. I would imagine the method would be reverse-compatible. The GMs liked the way MERP handled some things. We used RM2 for PC generation. I have no experience with GMing MERP but I have played the blend of the 2 systems and I didn't notice any issues from the player's perspective.
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A lot of MERP books do have RM stats, but it seems to be a little scattered with regards to which version they’re supporting. That makes sense, given that MERP was around for a long time, and RM versions evolved, etc.
What I’m less certain about is whether there are any noteworthy concerns about using e.g. RMSS stats in an RM2 game. Hands of the Healer for instance is tri-statted for MERP, LOR and RMSS.
I never read RMSS, but I always understood that it differed from the other editions in power levels. If that’s the case, and MERP power levels remains the same throughout its run, while switching between RM2 and RMSS, presumably something’s off somewhere?
I assume this is overthinking it, but I mean... it’s Rolemaster.
Anyway, re. RM stat blocks in general, from perusing MERP books, many of them do seem to consider the MERP stat blocks to be directly transferable to RM, which is great. I’ve previously run a Call of Cthulhu game in Trail of Cthulhu, and it ended up being a pain in the ass to constantly consider the (massive) differences between the two systems, and while I’d love to move to RM (in part to use War Law!) I’m not interested in extra work between sessions doing transmorphing prep work!
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The vast majority of MERP products were produced before RMSS came out (c. 1995?), so most of them give RM2 stats. Only a handful (like Hands of the Healer) have RMSS stats, and even some of those I think are reissued versions of RM2 editions that you could get instead.
You are right that there are some incompatibilities between RM2 and RMSS, but they are relatively minor in most cases, since the modules just give general stats such as OB, DB, etc., and the developers never really seemed to follow hard and fast character building rules for any version of RM anyway (e.g. the numbers on some characters in Lords of Middle Earth are way off what they should be).
So, if you want to play in MERP, your best bet is definitely RM2, since the vast majority of MERP books give RM2 stats, and even the ones that give RMSS stats are easily converted (you might not even be able to tell the difference between them).
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So, if you want to play in MERP, your best bet is definitely RM2, since the vast majority of MERP books give RM2 stats, and even the ones that give RMSS stats are easily converted (you might not even be able to tell the difference between them).
This right here. Most MERP books give bare bones. They don't even tell you what spell lists NPCs have half if the time. You'll literally get a chart with 25 NPCs on it, each of which takes up one line.
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I really like M.E. modules, but many times i have problems with their consistency, mostly regarding BO. (BO of same level and profession pg, differ from modules to modules, take as example umbar fighters vs Arnor fighters)
Most of the modules are developed under rm2 rules. I know in general terms rm2 system, but i play with rmss rules.
My doubts are mostly related to professions bonus. If i remember well in RM2 a fighter get a +3 until lvl 20, then a + 1lvl for level over 20.
So if a fighter put 2 ranks/level in a weapon over 20 lvl the increase of the BO will be +2 (+1 for profession and +0,5*2ranks due to increase in the skill)?
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I can't answer The RMSS question but in regards to consistency: I just assume that some people don't max things OUT. Maybe Arnor infantry are better trained (or whichever has the higher OB).
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Another example is aragorn before and after the destruction of the One ring:
Before lvl 27 BO 185 with a +20 sword
After lvl 36 Bo 200, but it advance 9 lvl and gets Anduril, a + 50 to BO.
I know that i am a little bit obsessed with numbers..... but a little bit of consistency for a so simple math would had been much appreciated.
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My doubts are mostly related to professions bonus. If i remember well in RM2 a fighter get a +3 until lvl 20, then a + 1lvl for level over 20.
So if a fighter put 2 ranks/level in a weapon over 20 lvl the increase of the BO will be +2 (+1 for profession and +0,5*2ranks due to increase in the skill)?
Yes, that is the correct way bonuses work.
And yes, you are right: the old ME modules are not consistent in that way.
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The current in-person campaign I'm part of has been using RMu with MERP since beta release with little problems with conversions.
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What worries me in general is not the difficulties on the conversions (pretty easy after you have a "mental" marks of archetype for different level and professions, acquired in years of gameplay), my concern is always between:
1 Is this a deliberate choice of the designers? so there is a reason and i need to investigate/understand
2 is simply a problem of consistency between different authors/different rules.
I know that the beauty of RM system(and is one of the principal reason because i play RM) is the possibility to have totally different skills between 2 character of same professions and levels, but probably some modules need to be attuned a little bit (see LOME II, edain statistic/skill would to be totally redisegned, mostly if compared with LOME I, Turin & Hurin BO make me cry everytime I see it, best human fighter according to canon).
Sorry for the academic disgression.... ;D
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Turin & Hurin BO make me cry everytime I see it, best human fighter according to canon...
I would probably have found it hard to kill those 70 Trolls with just a 275 OB, but the thing that bothers me more is that Luthien is much better than me (390), with a dagger at least.
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Don't worry from my recalculation you will have at least 460 to Bo to kill those trolls with your +75 axe and +25 from natural weapon master talent...
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Info from the past: (some hopefully humorous)
Math:
1) Math is hard.
2) Math mistakes happen
3) Today hopefully with computer aided support things "can" be more consistent (see PC/NPC Gen below)
PC/NPC Gen:
1) People/Authors/Helpers used different rules and had different core ideas on how to create PC/NPC's.
Example/Project: Create essentially the same PC using the core RM2 rules and then the same PC using all of the RoCos and Companion books.
You may find that your warrior mage concept in Core RM2 is done by using the Rogue Profession and after adding all of the books you use the Warrior Mage or Armsmaster profession.
2) From what I heard people were asked to create PC/NPC's and the requester thought they would use one set of rules and the do'er would use another set.
Today: if you are doing stuff today it would be very helpful to you to make a PC/NPC reference doc so you maintain consistency and try and avoid Bacon Law*.
*Bacon Law books are so good that they change the fundamental way the game is played and thus all/most things before it have to be redone or analyzed for reworking.
In general you should redo/check all stuff that you want to use and is important. Once you get a good handle on what the numbers mean then you can wing it from there. Some GM's can do this others cannot as they just cannot seem to get a feel for the relationship between the professions and skills.
This also applies to RM2 stuff such as War Law and old Shadow World stuff.
MDC
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I have been using the MERP adventure modules more or less as is in my RMSS games for decades with no problems with NPCs or creatures. RM/MERP creature stats have always been rather bare bones OB/DB/AT/level and a few random relevant skills(sometimes). You don't need the full power of the charger system to flesh out an animal or opponent that is really only cannon fodder, the OB/DB are pretty much it. You can always hand-wave away the differences as weaker or stronger individual creatures.(All the level 1 fighter elven militia in a MERP sourcebook are not 30 year old elves in my world, they are probably 1000 year old farmer/weaver/philosopher/whatevers who just happen to have the same combat ability as a 1st level fighter)
There are also a number of good training packages and race/culture write ups available if you do a good google search. The guild companion has a few TPs that are specific to ME and there is a great sourcebook floating around out there for RMSS/RMFP that has a lot of good info on how to run in middle earth(what spell lists to disallow, etc.)