This is not necessarily true, as evident by several 'wealthy' nations in our own world that have large numbers of seriously poor people.
- The citizens of this city, even the poorer ones, must be incredibly rich compared to other people.
For comparison, Wikipedia lists the cost of a Gerald R. Ford class aircraft carrier at $13 billion. That is 418019 times the median US income in 2016 ($31099).
1/418019th of the price of a 20 million gold air barge is about 48 gold. That might be a reasonable estimate of the median income in a Rolemaster nation. (The mean income would be higher, since the people who are rich are very rich.)
Magic will push mean income up because you basically now have an additional middle class. And actually at Rolemaster prices, you could strike it rich just foraging for herbs. How high exactly that takes it, I don't know.
Magic will push mean income up because you basically now have an additional middle class. And actually at Rolemaster prices, you could strike it rich just foraging for herbs. How high exactly that takes it, I don't know.
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Ultimately I think an unskilled laborer in ShadowWorld is going to work their ass off for very little coin in return.
Magic will push mean income up because you basically now have an additional middle class.I agree with Jenkyna on this because I don't think I ever read of any nation of Kulthea diverging from the typical model of: An Upper-Class being a small percentage of the population & a Lower-Class being the vast majority of the population, with some Merchant/Middle-Class sprinkled in there. Because of this, we can only extrapolate that they are similar in this regard to our own, meaning that the upper-class will do what it can to keep a stranglehold on the wealth/power - each to a greater or lesser degree. Add in the fact that individuals can attain immense personal powers and you give those in power more capabilities to hold on to their power.
And actually at Rolemaster prices, you could strike it rich just foraging for herbs. How high exactly that takes it, I don't know.As for the herb gathering, in a world where it is likely 100x more dangerous to go out into the wild than it is on our world (or more, I would believe), very few would be able to do this. That is likely a big reason for the cost of many herbs as it contributes to the rarity of them. So, if you are able, sure it is a good paying job, but dangerous and you could die on each and every trip out. Sure, some can be garden-grown, but I think the most expensive types can't.
That's an interesting idea. I think it would depend a lot on how common magic is.This has been a bone of contention with me. I think the setting is high magic, but so many argue that it is not, that the average person on Kulthea sees magic maybe once or twice in their lifetime. I think that is more like per week. I am not talking about big spells, but the basic low level healing that would be performed by the priests on a regular basis. Of course, the more prevalent it is, the less $$$ spellcasting is worth. (Not saying that is a bad thing, mind you.)
For comparison, Wikipedia lists the cost of a Gerald R. Ford class aircraft carrier at $13 billion. That is 418019 times the median US income in 2016 ($31099).
This has been a bone of contention with me. I think the setting is high magic, but so many argue that it is not, that the average person on Kulthea sees magic maybe once or twice in their lifetime. I think that is more like per week. I am not talking about big spells, but the basic low level healing that would be performed by the priests on a regular basis. Of course, the more prevalent it is, the less $$$ spellcasting is worth. (Not saying that is a bad thing, mind you.)
Air barge: Just under 20 million gold pieces.
I do feel magic should be a lot more common than it seemingly is. To get that 20th level caster, I think you need many magnitudes more 1st level casters. So, I would actually expect a significant minority of the population to be able to cast a spell. Even if it's only to boil water.If you go by the RMFRP rules and make an Urban character, they get 2 ranks in spells automatically. So, all cities are full of individuals who can cast at least 2 spells by those rules.
I'm not sure it is adequate for the general population. It might be adequate for Player Characters, who are exceptional individuals, but not for your average citizen of Sel-Kai city or Haalkitaine.I do feel magic should be a lot more common than it seemingly is. To get that 20th level caster, I think you need many magnitudes more 1st level casters. So, I would actually expect a significant minority of the population to be able to cast a spell. Even if it's only to boil water.If you go by the RMFRP rules and make an Urban character, they get 2 ranks in spells automatically. So, all cities are full of individuals who can cast at least 2 spells by those rules.
I don't think I ever read of any nation of Kulthea diverging from the typical model of: An Upper-Class being a small percentage of the population & a Lower-Class being the vast majority of the population, with some Merchant/Middle-Class sprinkled in there.
But what of those lower-class people who have magic? Well, think of it this way: today we have different levels of access to tools of learning. If you are exceptionally wealthy you can go to one of the 'big' schools like Harvard, Cambridge, MIT, etc... which an employer would consider above the college they had to look up in order to know where it was. Not only that, the connections being at that level would entail. The same goes for a magic world. The upper-class would have greater access to more capable instructors, and they very likely don't have anything close to resembling scholarships.
I just don't think it is in anyway accurate to assume that the commoner would be wealthy just because the upper-class is exceedingly wealthy. In fact, I would argue that it would be the opposite because at any given moment all resources are finite - even the imaginary / made-up ones like money - so if some have so much, then others will have very little.
As for the herb gathering, in a world where it is likely 100x more dangerous to go out into the wild than it is on our world (or more, I would believe), very few would be able to do this.
This has been a bone of contention with me. I think the setting is high magic, but so many argue that it is not, that the average person on Kulthea sees magic maybe once or twice in their lifetime. I think that is more like per week.
Sel-Kai has schools that teach magic, so it’s definitely something that is present in the city.
There is also the elephant in the room. That is, the city in the sky.
I'm not sure it is adequate for the general population. It might be adequate for Player Characters, who are exceptional individuals, but not for your average citizen of Sel-Kai city or Haalkitaine.regulated).While I do subscribe to the opinion that PCs have to be somewhat special, more than your average individual of whatever world/game you are in/playing, I also subscribe to the idea that PCs and NPCs are made roughly the same. The big difference being that, for me, the PCs get stuff like Talents and somewhat higher base attributes as well as 'Luck Points' or something like that to set them apart/above. But, other than that, they should be made the same so that you can have a frame of reference, i.e. PCs are X amount above the commoners and Y below the epic NPCs. So, all those 'Rural', 'Urban', 'Hill' and other background templates apply to everyone from such a background. At least, that is the way I look at it. YMMV.
I think that is basically what I said. Let me put this more clear than I apparently did. as I am not looking for a discussion on modern higher learning statistics verses ancient higher learning stats: I was saying that I think it was wrong to say that the lower classes of Sel-Kai were wealthy compared to other nations because the richest of them could afford to make airships. In fact, I think it is the opposite. Generally, when you have really, really wealthy individuals, the lower classes are much poorer. The college analogy (which I said that the lower classes could NOT go to) was just a throw away analogy to show the difference between the wealthy and poor, how the wealthy had access to more tools than the poor.I don't think I ever read of any nation of Kulthea diverging from the typical model of: An Upper-Class being a small percentage of the population & a Lower-Class being the vast majority of the population, with some Merchant/Middle-Class sprinkled in there.In our own world the middle class makes up almost half of today’s society, but in a feudal society more than 90% of the people were peasants. That would mean the middle class was a much smaller percentage of the population than it is today. It’s also interesting to note that in renaissance society the middle class was below the merchant class. You had four classes: peasants, middle class, a merchant class who were rich, and nobles - who were sometimes poor.
One of my favorite ShadowWorld supplements from old ICE was the one with the magical college on the hidden isle. That’s a place where magic likely would be much more commonplace. No idea if Terry considers that one canon.I like that one too. I think it makes a good plot device, a place the PCs have to find and somehow gain entrance to in order to learn or get something important.
This is really up to the GM & Players imo. I see ShadowWorld as high magic in the sense that it is more like Faerûn than it is Middle Earth. I don’t see ShadowWorld's magic as being commonplace like it is in the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, with modern conveniences being replaced by magic, and usually for the better. The amount of magic you see in Kulthea each week is likely to be based on your role in society. The average farmer would probably never see magic at any point in their life, but a Loremaster could see it daily. An ordinary person living in a city might see it every so often, but it would be a noteworthy event.I go somewhere between those extremes. I do think that a farmer would see magic on a semi-regular basis because to think that they wouldn't use nature magic to some degree or another in a world of magic, is like saying don't use pesticides now. (Yes, I know there are problems with pesticides, but that only reinforces my point as there are generally no health side-effect on a druid or nature cleric using their magic to help the plants grow, so why not? We still use the dangerous chemicals these days and we know they are dangerous.
I also tend towards Dragons being legends that no common folk believe still exist, and the civilization of the K’ta’viir being so far lost in the past that only a select few like the Loremasters or the Jerak Ahrenreth know they were a real thing 100,000+ years ago. It’s not that the players will never encounter these realities, but in my mind 1st level PCs aren’t wise to the secrets of the world and must grow into that knowledge.
I do think Kulthea has three major limitations on the free exercise of magical power.I don't know about the Jerak Ahrenreth hunting down spellcaster, that bit of information has never cropped up in anything I read about them. Not saying it isn't there, just I don't remember reading about it. But, even if that was the case, the world (even just the half they operate within) is big and there are tons of cultures and settlements, so they would miss far too much for it to really make an impact. I don't think they would bother, really, because it would be a huge expenditure of resources. Except, if during the course of another mission they encounter a burgeoning spellcaster that they think might be dangerous. In that case, they might take the effort to deal with them, but even then it is still a risky business because they don't know who else that might upset and put on their trail. They seem to be fairly smart operators and such folk don't just kill willy-nilly as it tends to draw a lot of attention - even in a world such as Kulthea.
Flowstorms can be triggered by runaway magic, which makes problematic to cast high level spells.
Groups like the Jerak Ahrenreth seek to kill or subvert powerful spellcasters. If you have power you probably don’t display it openly. By the time you have that sort of power you likely know about these sorts of groups.
Portals to the ash lairs or the pales can open randomly, and magic running wild can sometimes serve as a catalyst. Having a demon from beyond the Pale demon step though a portal into your living room at dinner time is usually a downer; especially if he then tries to sell you aluminum siding.
One of my favorite ShadowWorld supplements from old ICE was the one with the magical college on the hidden isle. That’s a place where magic likely would be much more commonplace. No idea if Terry considers that one canon.I like that one too. I think it makes a good plot device, a place the PCs have to find and somehow gain entrance to in order to learn or get something important.
I always thought of Eidolon/Sel-kai as Renn-era Venice, so you’re close!
Skyships would of course be many times more expensive than a sailing ship, not only because of the antigravity alloy, but the mechanics of the retracting lower hull.
Was it just me, or was the ICE site down for several days?