Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => Topic started by: Zedul on June 01, 2011, 04:13:15 PM
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Don't make me break out talent law and generate an amusing bit of high level RMSS bonus inflation. . .does anyone actually think that can't be done? ;)
I concur that stun removal tends to be more of a problem than stun, so I'm kind of contrary to the gist of this thread. . .then again, I blame all stun removal woes on the wording of the Stun Maneuver skill in the RoCo2. . ..
I can't believe people are even concerned with stun, back in the day this was one of the things players most LOVED about the system! We used to think - "Oh my god, stun! That's brilliant!"
Why is there an assumption that level 50 encounters "extreme"?... what has happened to this gaming system that used to have a reputation of being "EPIC". I remember when the primary RM module (Court of Ardor) was chock full of level 50+ encounters right out of the gate!
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What happened in my case was that my world was difficult enough to survive in that making it past 25th was a major accomplishment. Most died between 11-20.
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I have enjoyed RM from dung-n-beans 1-5th, heroic 5-15, legendary 15-25, and some truly memorable great times at epic 25+. . . .
I've loved games where after 4 sessions and a lot of planning, we finally killed that thrice damned troll, but what can be more fun than being a Paladin, power dropping into heaven with the help of an archmage, much to the surprise of the other archmage that had stormed heaven and was locked in a fight to the death with the One God. . . .killing said villain, and thus, in actual combat, saving my god from the licking he was taking, and being re-substantiated to the material world in a pillar of light atop the holy symbol carved into the floor of the great hall of the Citadel of Light, interrupting a full meeting of the council of cardinals. . .
Epic can be a bit stale if you don't earn it, but starting that pally off as a 1st level pig farmer driven off his land by an invasion, that moment, long in coming, was ever so sweet. It's been a while since I've had the time to really play week in week out for 8 hours every Saturday, to build up to that truly glorious, well earned epic moment.
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It's been a while since I've had the time to really play week in week out for 8 hours every Saturday, to build up to that truly glorious, well earned epic moment.
Right there with ya. Our games now tend to be twice a month, or once a week if we are lucky. Jobs and families and the moves that come with it only add to scheduling problems. So our games aim at being 4-7 sessions so the next GM can get a game in. The next one may be a level one affair, but it is just as likely to start at level 7, or 12, or 25th depending on the new story and character conception inspired by it. For that matter, it may be a HERO, or an In Nomine game. Long played PC's that reach high levels through endless nights of gaming are certainly a thing in the past for me.
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It's been a while since I've had the time to really play week in week out for 8 hours every Saturday, to build up to that truly glorious, well earned epic moment.
That moment is what I build towards... they come once every 5 to 10 years with tons of work in between and people never forget them!
We play 3-4 times per year, for 36+ hours over a 3-4 day period. My players expend $5,000+ dollars a year, burn 5 to 6 vacation days per year, and fly across the country to sit at my table. Wives and families probably hate me a little bit... yet I have a waiting list for each chair at my table. Part of this is that experience was fun at level 5 when they started their characters, and now at level 50 nearly 360 hours of gaming later.
The story continues... if a character dies they choose from a pool of established NPC's and make that their new main character. Each person has lost 1 character this run, but the story goes on. An NPC was lost last session and the players were near despondent because she was so well beloved. A truly outstanding campaign should be the same experience or even better than a great novel or a movie you see in the theater.
There are no sacred cows in my campaign, no artificial restrictions or rules where the GM tells them "you can't because!" Our Warrior Monk wields an epic sword, our ranger has a legendary bow, our rogue has 2 matchlock pistols and a blunderbuss, our thief has twin blaster pistols she stole from a derelict ship.
They think about the game all day long, I get over a hundred emails per week, I had to get a text package on my cell phone just because of the game.
None of this happens because I don't have control or understanding of the game system. I have been told hundreds of times by players from conventions to book shop one offs, that once they have played in my campaign they can never go back to another. I only judge myself or my campaign based on those moments. It's the players that dictate to me if I am doing a good job or not.
I am a storyteller first, a judge second, and a mathematician third...
By god when a character dies in my campaign the players are as near to tears as if they had just watched the boy put down the dog in Old Yeller! I think a character death should mean something and if it happens so often people are used to it, then they will stop caring so much and the carnage becomes just another statistic. At that point we might as well be playing Battletech or Warhammer... ::)
A stun is just a mechanic to serve the arc, and long stuns have decided the fate of entire Kingdoms and peoples! In that context the game mechanics can mean little or everything...
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btw... I did not mean to sound like a braggart or anything.
We live off the RM2 companions - particularly 1,2,3, and 5, which are the backbone of our games - and these tend to be universally maligned on these boards, and the high end game seems to be "poo pooed" as if we are not doing things right. I share Yama's frustration on this...
I cannot put into words or even explain the immense amount of work and sacrifice that has been put into our campaign. Easily tens of thousands of man hours - so you will excuse me if I get a wee bit defensive. ;)
I take my gaming seriously, but if you Google "Zedul" the first few results you get will lead you to my other "hobby" - and get a better idea of where I am coming from when I try to explain that when I do something... I apply a certain level of skill.
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Not universally maligned, but I do know what you mean. . .I find them more like a box of mixed tools, knives, guns and plutonium. . . .there's loads of useful stuff in there, and also plenty of potential to cause harm. Taken from a perspective of an experienced GM, you can choose and sort what you want and when to use it. . . .and sometimes plutonium is just the right tool for what you want to do. . .but the kind of grab bag nature of those books means you need the GM to be picking and choosing, and at times tweaking the edges and corners to fit.
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It looks like much of the material from RoCo's has been put on a more even playing field (watered down) to better fit the game; RMSS/RMFRP. You can see a lot of this in EssCo and ArcCo, IMHO.
But if the material works for you, great.
BTW, nice interview.
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Not universally maligned, but I do know what you mean. . .I find them more like a box of mixed tools, knives, guns and plutonium. . . .there's loads of useful stuff in there, and also plenty of potential to cause harm. Taken from a perspective of an experienced GM, you can choose and sort what you want and when to use it. . . .and sometimes plutonium is just the right tool for what you want to do. . .but the kind of grab bag nature of those books means you need the GM to be picking and choosing, and at times tweaking the edges and corners to fit.
That's exactly what I love about it and why RM/RM2 attracted many of us serious players away from D&D. RMSS sent them all back...
It's like when Coke became "New Coke" - jeez, if I wanted a Cola that tastes like Pepsi - I would have just bought Pepsi to begin with!
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I don't mean to sneer at uber-high level campaigns... but I think you'll admit it's a fairly rare GM with a party that level that actually made them earn it every step of the way, so I can't be too surprised that people tend to assume it's a "Monty Haul" type of game, regardless of what the reality is.
That said, I still contend that if a party, regardless of level or equipment, is seriously challenging Gods, then IMO either:
1. The Gods aren't really Gods, they're merely gods. In other words, you aren't talking about entities that throw ice ages, asteroid strikes, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, Pestilence Famine War and Death type of things because you've annoyed them. The gods may be able to wreck a culture or even a continent if they put their mind to it, but they don't do it casually and their influence is largely limited to the world they're on, perhaps only a small part of it.
or
2. There has GOT to be a few seriously nasty monsters you've missed. :o
If #1 is true, what you're calling "Gods" I'm calling "Major Devi", not quite up to "Demigod".
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I don't mean to sneer at uber-high level campaigns... but I think you'll admit it's a fairly rare GM with a party that level that actually made them earn it every step of the way, so I can't be too surprised that people tend to assume it's a "Monty Haul" type of game, regardless of what the reality is.
That said, I still contend that if a party, regardless of level or equipment, is seriously challenging Gods, then IMO either:
1. The Gods aren't really Gods, they're merely gods. In other words, you aren't talking about entities that throw ice ages, asteroid strikes, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, Pestilence Famine War and Death type of things because you've annoyed them. The gods may be able to wreck a culture or even a continent if they put their mind to it, but they don't do it casually and their influence is largely limited to the world they're on, perhaps only a small part of it.
or
2. There has GOT to be a few seriously nasty monsters you've missed. :o
If #1 is true, what you're calling "Gods" I'm calling "Major Devi", not quite up to "Demigod".
Yea, our seriously nasty monsters are level 75 to 150, our demigods are level 150 to 360, our lesser gods are level 360 to 1,000, our actual "gods" of which there are 4, are .... well, capable of wiping out planets so they are a non factor in the campaign outside of religion and lore and the secrets of the universe.
In 30 years of the campaign we have only had a few "seriously nasty monsters" go down, the demi gods and gods are pretty much untouchable but that does not mean the campaign isn't epic.
I counted it out... thinking about the different parties through the years, we have had 4 sets of characters break level 50, half a dozen or so break level 25, and roughly 75% of all characters created have failed to reach very far past 20 if at all... either there was a TPK or the storyline simply ended.
Yet I still consider it an epic campaign.
Our most epic character was level 115 to 120 when he died - and that character was transferred from AD&D and played on and off for nearly 15 years. He was done in by his level 20ish wife who suspected him of fooling around on her. Which just goes to show you... though you may be able to take on a demi-god, you are still no match for a woman scorned!
Final point:
We have totally digressed from stuns... :o
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Depends, you need to take the system into account. . .it's hard to make an impossible to kill entity short of simply stating "Can't be harmed" on them....or simply by not giving a god stats (I generally don't ever find the need to stat up actual gods) often at best what you confront is an avatar or possessed vessel.
So I guess you could state that said entities, sans character sheets, who exist as deus ex are truely gods. . .
In some games, if they actually do have stats. . . if one were to actually meet zeus and manage to attack him, roll a 00 on the crit. . .
I find that generally bad things happen when gods die in mythology though. . .
In said game above I described, I'd call the One God such a plot element that couldn't be killed via an attack. . .as was the archmage battling him, it was by choosing sides and attacking either that my pally and the archmage caused one to win and one to loose, by tipping the balance between the two and letting the other win.
As to the RMSS/RM2 thing, I don't think the comparison is fair, RMSS isn't new Coke, it's Coke, RM2 was Cola. . . With RM2 you could have coke, or pepsi, or RC, or whatever, RMSS presented a singular and very good expression of RM2. . .it didn't make it watered down, it just set it to a singular and fixed game, which if you're the game developer, is very handy in terms of actually writing supplements or adventures for. . .it's much harder to build anything bigger than an element for RM2, because there are so many mutually exclusive elements that you can't build big many sided game aids as the larger it is, the more elements it will conflict with and make it non usable for more games. . .RM2 is and was great, but it's a different game, slightly, for each GM and gaming group, while RMSS chose just one set of the exclusive elements and made it more likely that the game you play with me would be the game you'd play with Yamma would be the game you'd play with Grumpy.
It's not "toned down" it's just coherent and whole. . .which is a turn off to some people who would have chosen different parts to make the "standard" whole out of.
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Depends, you need to take the system into account. . .it's hard to make an impossible to kill entity short of simply stating "Can't be harmed" on them....or simply by not giving a god stats (I generally don't ever find the need to stat up actual gods) often at best what you confront is an avatar or possessed vessel.
So I guess you could state that said entities, sans character sheets, who exist as deus ex are truely gods. . .
In some games, if they actually do have stats. . . if one were to actually meet zeus and manage to attack him, roll a 00 on the crit. . .
I find that generally bad things happen when gods die in mythology though. . .
In said game above I described, I'd call the One God such a plot element that couldn't be killed via an attack. . .as was the archmage battling him, it was by choosing sides and attacking either that my pally and the archmage caused one to win and one to loose, by tipping the balance between the two and letting the other win.
As to the RMSS/RM2 thing, I don't think the comparison is fair, RMSS isn't new Coke, it's Coke, RM2 was Cola. . . With RM2 you could have coke, or pepsi, or RC, or whatever, RMSS presented a singular and very good expression of RM2. . .it didn't make it watered down, it just set it to a singular and fixed game, which if you're the game developer, is very handy in terms of actually writing supplements or adventures for. . .it's much harder to build anything bigger than an element for RM2, because there are so many mutually exclusive elements that you can't build big many sided game aids as the larger it is, the more elements it will conflict with and make it non usable for more games. . .RM2 is and was great, but it's a different game, slightly, for each GM and gaming group, while RMSS chose just one set of the exclusive elements and made it more likely that the game you play with me would be the game you'd play with Yamma would be the game you'd play with Grumpy.
It's not "toned down" it's just coherent and whole. . .which is a turn off to some people who would have chosen different parts to make the "standard" whole out of.
Best description of the difernces between RM2 and RMSS I've seen yet.
It took me a while before I could accept the "new" codified RM, but I have not regretted the change. However, I feel I am a minority. Having once accepted the format change I am open to doing so again, which probably means I remain in the minority.
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Best description of the differences between RM2 and RMSS I've seen yet.
It took me a while before I could accept the "new" codified RM, but I have not regretted the change.
Hear, hear!
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RM2 is and was great, but it's a different game, slightly, for each GM and gaming group, while RMSS chose just one set of the exclusive elements and made it more likely that the game you play with me would be the game you'd play with Yamma would be the game you'd play with Grumpy.
It's not "toned down" it's just coherent and whole. . .which is a turn off to some people who would have chosen different parts to make the "standard" whole out of.
Best description of the difernces between RM2 and RMSS I've seen yet.
It took me a while before I could accept the "new" codified RM, but I have not regretted the change. However, I feel I am a minority. Having once accepted the format change I am open to doing so again, which probably means I remain in the minority.
But for those of us who really don't like or appreciate RMSS - we got dumped because they stopped making material for RM2 - it just stopped. They cut us off.
My argument against RMSS at the time, was: Why standardize a system that was created to free us from standardization? That was created to allow GM's to custom build worlds and campaigns?
The modules for RM/RM2 are amazing and creative because they were written almost entirely from the perspective of story and the GM often had to do his own work and customize each model which is what turned me from a mediocre GM into a good GM in the first place.
Yes it is harder to write modules that are not standardized, yes it is more work for the GM. But I always thought that was the point of RM!
RM2 inspired me to write, to create, to make my own world... for the players to create their own backgrounds. Now players are handed a cookie cutter and told to choose a "training package" - "Hey boy, do you want that gingerbread man with a bow tie, or a sombrero?" Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying RMSS is bad gaming system but what I am saying is that it feels like just a "Gaming System", there is no black magic to it. It's dry and boring and, well, "standard".
RM2 felt like chaos mathematics, like if you really understood it the universe would implode, there was a sense of awe. We waited for each companion like Moses expecting a new tablet from God. And then it all just stopped... ugh, worse, it never came back. It was replaced with the same dusty algebra found in every other gaming system on the shelf.
RM2 being replaced by RMSS is up there with "Highlander 2" as one of the most profound entertainment disappointments of my life.
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On the Highlander note, even though they didn't die easily... they could still be stunned. :)
But I'm sure they had a few ranks in stunned maneuvering/removal.
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RM2 is and was great, but it's a different game, slightly, for each GM and gaming group, while RMSS chose just one set of the exclusive elements and made it more likely that the game you play with me would be the game you'd play with Yamma would be the game you'd play with Grumpy.
It's not "toned down" it's just coherent and whole. . .which is a turn off to some people who would have chosen different parts to make the "standard" whole out of.
Best description of the difernces between RM2 and RMSS I've seen yet.
It took me a while before I could accept the "new" codified RM, but I have not regretted the change. However, I feel I am a minority. Having once accepted the format change I am open to doing so again, which probably means I remain in the minority.
My argument against RMSS at the time, was: Why standardize a system that was created to free us from standardization? That was created to allow GM's to custom build worlds and campaigns?
{snip}
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying RMSS is bad gaming system but what I am saying is that it feels like just a "Gaming System", there is no black magic to it. It's dry and boring and, well, "standard".
RM2 felt like chaos mathematics, like if you really understood it the universe would implode, there was a sense of awe. We waited for each companion like Moses expecting a new tablet from God. And then it all just stopped... ugh, worse, it never came back. It was replaced with the same dusty algebra found in every other gaming system on the shelf.
There's a lot I agree with here, and it defines why I have my own pet peeve about wanting _____ (whatever the next revision gets called) to "have high modularity". In the same way that I think the player is better served by doing away with 'Classes/Professions' and 'levels' and going directly from character concept and backstory (when possible), so I also think the GM is better served by a system that allows him to build his game from world concept and tweak the rules to match. Magic in my game may not work the same way as it does in, say, Echoes of Heaven, which may not work the same way as it does in, say, Shadow World. Nor may the finer points of stun and stun relief. Nor may the finer points of called shots, or round-by-round tactics, or martial arts, or fighting styles, or healing. Nor, at least from where I stand, should they have to.
In short, IMO "coherent and whole" is in many ways a bug, not a feature. One of the best things about ICE, and this forum, is that for all questions and opinions there is always a (often unspoken) "YMMV". The thing that makes your particular game worth playing to your particular group is that it has your own personal skid to it, in other words because your mileage varies.
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Bah, with a little imagination, RMSS remains just as flexible as RM2. I still use materials from the old companions.
I can understand some just not wanting to change or feeling change was needed, but the design of RMSS is solid.
And it has stun removal skill...which I can do without truth be told. In RM1 there was no stun removal and we got by. Actually, there are a bunch of RM1 rules I still use cuz they just make sense.
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RM2 being replaced by RMSS is up there with "Highlander 2" as one of the most profound entertainment disappointments of my life.
^^ Pure gold
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Bah, with a little imagination, RMSS remains just as flexible as RM2. I still use materials from the old companions.
I can understand some just not wanting to change or feeling change was needed, but the design of RMSS is solid.
And it has stun removal skill...which I can do without truth be told. In RM1 there was no stun removal and we got by. Actually, there are a bunch of RM1 rules I still use cuz they just make sense.
I don't think it even requires a little imagination. I've incorporated War Law into RMSS, and many of the skills in Arms Companion, and spells lists from Spell User's Companion. Just a little diligence to make sure that the spells are well specified (in terms of spell types).
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I never used RM2, but did use SpaceMaster 2nd Edition before moving to RMSS. I prefer the standardization, personally, but don't think it's any less modular per se. The big difference does seem to be in skill bonuses at high levels, but I've found it's fun to put PCs in positions where they need to plan and stack the odds in their favor anyways. "Charge into the room? No. Roll a barrel of flaming oil into the room. Then, barricade the door and move on." Who cares if the OB is +300 or +100: why chance the bad guys in the room rolling open ended?
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Bah, with a little imagination, RMSS remains just as flexible as RM2. I still use materials from the old companions.
I can understand some just not wanting to change or feeling change was needed, but the design of RMSS is solid.
And it has stun removal skill...which I can do without truth be told. In RM1 there was no stun removal and we got by. Actually, there are a bunch of RM1 rules I still use cuz they just make sense.
I don't understand how you think there was no stun removal in RM1.
There are at least half a dozen spell lists with stun relief, including stun relief on 2 open lists even a fighter can get with an "A" pick.
Not to mention: Januk-Ty, (3 rounds), Suranie (1 round), Vinuk (1d10 rounds), Welwal (3 rounds), Witav (2 rounds).
+ Any Animist can turn those herbs into an anti stun potion/mixture that will prevent stun for an entire battle. You just gulp one of those down before you enter combat and stun becomes a non issue. (Of course, addiction could become an issue...)
As to the rest.
Nowhere did I indicate that RMSS was not a solid system. That was not my point.
My point was that it was a rewrite of a system that we all loved. We were buying RM2 books, we were happy, then suddenly... "Screw you RM/RM2 people! We are going to replace your beloved game with a new system we think is better".
Which is why I know probably over a hundred people who won't even look at an ICE product again, and game store owners who won't stock their shelves with ICE products. Before RMSS you could find RM2 in every gameshop in the greater Seattle area right out on the front shelves, afterwards you could only find RMSS products in the back corner of maybe 1 place you had to drive 3 hours to find.
You can't just burn your players like that, you can't force change they don't want.
The other RM groups we used to interact with all went back to D&D, then just stopped completely and probably drifted into online games. One group I know started their campaign again and converted to Pathfinder. In the gaming forum here in my home city if you post something about RM people run away screaming.
From an outsider looking in, and trying to figure out just what RM is now? It's just a murky, impenetrable mess of conflicting systems.
This is the legacy of RMSS.
Even if you like the system you have to acknowledge the damage it did and understand that many former RM/RM2 players are just downright bitter...
I hit this site once per year for almost a decade before I figured I was even close to rational enough about it to start posting, and as you can tell I still have difficulty digesting what happened to the game I loved. I came back here because it seemed like the new regime was going back to printing RM2 or even might produce new RM2 materials, that is the only reason I would consider shelling out my money again.
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I liked how they did the Combat Companion: it was written for RM2, but was adaptable to RMSS. Adventure modules should probably have dual-stats in the future. If ICE does that, maybe stores will stock them again.
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No stun removal skill. An outside agency was required to remove stun.
RMSS was a revision, and all systems revise. What killed RM was the bankruptcy, imo. Of course, your opinion is just as good my own, as no data exist to support either arguement (this being an old arguement).
FYI, I kept playing RM2 after the revision as I bought the RMSS and digested it. After about 18 months I gave it a try...and liked it.
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No stun removal skill. An outside agency was required to remove stun.
RMSS was a revision, and all systems revise. What killed RM was the bankruptcy, imo. Of course, your opinion is just as good my own, as no data exist to support either arguement (this being an old arguement).
FYI, I kept playing RM2 after the revision as I bought the RMSS and digested it. After about 18 months I gave it a try...and liked it.
Right, I see what you are saying. In general RM1 had very limited skills and required the GM to create skills of their own - it wasn't until RM2 and the Companions that we really got into the rest.
As far as argument, yea... what can you do? I argue from the standpoint of personal experience and opinion... and of course we all know how "data" can be used one way or the other even if we had it so it becomes an endless argument and I probably should not have gone there. What is done is done, and to quote a certain Steward of Gondor "stir not this bitter cup!"
It's off my chest and I am going to try really hard to not bring it up again... hopefully. ;)
Maybe one day I will sit down and really try to run a RMSS session, unless of course the Rapture occurs first! ;D
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lol at Rapyure.
Uh, if the rapture occurs, can I have your RM materials...err, or are we hanging out?
BTW, you take beautiful pictures.
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RMSS stopped the power creep of RM2. It doesn't mean it can't be flexible.
It's a solid base from which to game and no doubt add your own house rules.
I love RMSS.
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I disagree on the power creep end. . .There's plenty of power conduits inside RMSS, RM2 or RMSS can just as easily be played very low level (I've used RM2 for Indiana Jones like pulp, and played RMSS as WWII Call of Cthulhu) both of those games were super low powered compared to the usual fantasy game.
RMSS is one standardized set of RM2 options all used in one set. . . .there's not really a rule in RMSS that you can't tie back to a rule in RM2 or one of the companions. . .it's sort of like "This is the version of RM we were playing in the ICE Office". . .
And I agree with many of the comments above, in that it's not hard to use just about any RM2 material in an RMSS game, or any RMSS material in an RM2 game.
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I've found it much easier to incorporate RM2 into RMSS than RMSS into RM2.... but I may just be showing my ignorance of RMSS too, I haven't played it much.
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Call it standard or call it core, all games need a well defined baseline to operate from, the basic rules that are always the same. Not that this has been much of a problem recently, but when a module is made, it will use the base line rules with notes of options.
To the baseline GM's are free to modify. Supplements are all about optional rules.
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To the baseline GM's are free to modify. Supplements are all about optional rules.
IMHO this is why settings are important. This is so material can have a set number of options be standard and easy for them to use if they are from other sources. ie D&D base then Forgotten Realms standard options.
IMHO a good setting is worth its weight in gold to a core game and its designers.
MDC
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lol at Rapyure.
Uh, if the rapture occurs, can I have your RM materials...err, or are we hanging out?
BTW, you take beautiful pictures.
I am a non practicing Orthodox (we don't believe in the rapture) so in the unlikely event that recently developed fundamentalist eschatology is correct, I automatically go to hell with all the heathen for being a mediocre to bad Christian who lacks faith and fervor. So yes we will be hangin and so I will need my RM books!
Also to the below.
Settings are "everything". When I used to run a Middle Earth 4th age setting, there were limited magic items and level advancement. Level 20 characters were godlike. In my current world level 20 characters are cannon fodder once they are out of the small towns and countrysides.
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But for those of us who really don't like or appreciate RMSS - we got dumped because they stopped making material for RM2 - it just stopped. They cut us off.
My argument against RMSS at the time, was: Why standardize a system that was created to free us from standardization? That was created to allow GM's to custom build worlds and campaigns?
Excuse me if I am blunt, but nothing stopped you from buying new RM books and backport those parts you liked. My point is very much that RM2 and RMSS are compatible at the root level. The few adjustments so that RMSS scale better to high level without those game braking bonuses that the RM2 options gave are minor things. You claim to have been dumped by ICE while I claim the reverse, reality is that you stopped buying material that would have been trivial to port into your game. This made it harder to produce new material. Your reasons for doing such is secondary to the end result.
The thing with RMSS is that ICE decided the core system of RM2 was too bland or boring to attract new players. There were plenty of RM2 materials for sale, but ICE did not have the sales needed to sustain itself. Unfortunately they in the revision paid to little attention to the packaging of the product and we ended with RMSS that require an academical degree to parse. It was later revised into RMFRP, but that book never got a chance to live due to the bankruptcy. It is important to remember that old ICE went down because of the MERP license and not since RM had any inherent problems. The core RM itself was making profit even at the end and that is why I many others discussed buying the RM-intellectual property to ensure the game would survive.
The modules for RM/RM2 are amazing and creative because they were written almost entirely from the perspective of story and the GM often had to do his own work and customize each model which is what turned me from a mediocre GM into a good GM in the first place.
It is also true that ICE had serious problems with getting a revenue stream steady enough to pay the freelancers that wrote those books. The reality is that if you are just looking for stories to port to your game then books and comics are of equal use as the RM/RM2 books. Gaming materials IMHO need to be ready to run out of the box if they ever should have a chance of generating a profit.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying RMSS is bad gaming system but what I am saying is that it feels like just a "Gaming System", there is no black magic to it. It's dry and boring and, well, "standard".
Speaking of personal experience I would say the reverse. RM2 lived from the MERP fame, when RMSS came I finally had a game that itself could attract new players. I have had much better success with RMSS/RMFRP than I ever had with the core RM2 books.