Topic: What do you think about magical ritual?

[Dark Schneider]

I am talking about the new skill in Essence Companion, I see it like a slow spell casting, with the advantage of flexibility (many spell list in only 1 skill).

But, do you see this correct?, I mean, is correct to have access to so many spells with only 1 skill?, the other thought is about intrusiveness, as casting other profession base spells, do you see good that an animist could cast cleric resurrection spell by this skill?, or a magician a powerfull illusion spell?.

I know combat spells are useless with ritual, but how about non.combat spells?, for example all about runes, symbols, etc. we have access to all them in a all-in-one skill ritual, and as we have no hurry to use them there is no problem at all using a rituals for use all of them, then what happens with the spell list?.

I'd like to know any opinion, suggestion, house rule or any other thing about magical ritual, because I have my doubts.

At this moment, I am thinking about some limits:

• Don't allow other realm.
• Greater penalty for same realm other base.
• A fixed penalty for hybrids as they can use 2 realms rituals.
• Use the spell casting level limits for individual spells, so you can cast greater than your level combined spells ritual, but each single spell in the combined set can't be greater in level than user.

Another way to use the skill, and can be used together with the new one, is use it in the typical way, for example, god resurrection (there is no spell for that) woth a sacrifice, create special alchemy items, etc., purposed not covered by spells. Each purpose is a separate skill (invocation, alchemy ritual, etc.).

[StrongInTheArm]

Hi, Dark Schneider.
If I remember well the Essence Companion ritual rules, you have several categories of spells (invocations, alchemy, etc.) and you must develop a different ritual skill bonus for each one. I think there was a table with the different categories and the spell lists that fall into each category. There were also a lot of modifiers to the ritual maneuver roll based on the realm, special influences used during the ritual, etc.
Never tried myself the game mechanics for rituals in EssCo but I don't think they need so much tweaking.

[Dark Schneider]

Yes, I remember, precisely I am asking about that version of magical ritual 

[StrongInTheArm]

Sorry, I misunderstood the question. That's what happens when you don't read everything!
The point was that you were talking about an all-in-one skill and I began to think "no, you have around 20 different skills...". My fault, any case.
As I told you, I have no in-game experience with these ritual rules so I'm not of much help here.
Maybe one suggestion about hybrids. Since there are specific rules for rituals in every Realm Companion, you can force your hybrid spell-users to choose which kind of ritual they want to perform. So, if such a spell user choses the Essence way, the negative mods apply for Mentalism and Channeling even if the spell she tries to cast is from her other realm. This way, hybrids need to develop even more skills to be able to get advantage of their dual realm.

[pastaav]

I have also had some second thoughts about how Ess Comp rituals being far to flexible. My solution was to use the spell rituals rules from Mentalism Companion for all realms. To have different rules for rituals from different realms is questionable and if you are to chose a single one then why not go with the superior one?

[Dark Schneider]

Well I am looking at the mentalism ritual, it is basically as the essence one changing 2 points mainly: it has more risk (looking at the maneuver table compared to 'power manipulation' one used for other realms), but it compensates with less categories (only 5), I see it good if used with other ones.

The main problem is that it has the same use, with 1 skill you have access to many spell effects, and that is my question, if it is appropriate to use ritual in that way.

For example, in mentalism, see that with 2, self and other intelligent mind any mentalism user have access to all healing spells.

Then, this can destroy the concept of choosing a profession to have access to certain spells, pay many DPs to have many spell effects (see that for a spell user the cost is the same, 4 DP, 1 rank in a spell list and magical ritual). And as we know for combat spells rituals are useless, but for non-combat spells rituals can substitute spell lists in a cheaper and very flexible way.

The main problem is surely that your players have not tried enough the rituals, but I am using it with my magician and for that I ask about it, with a single ritual, enchant variable, I have access to all spells like runes, symbols, inscriptions and all those type like, al them are non-combat spells and it is not important is you delay casting them, then, where is the reason to be a runemage profession and spending so many DPs to adquire all those spell lists?.

Is for that I think rituals should be used in another way, or limit it in any manner, it is very easy to abuse for non-combat spells. Maybe the original description?, it says about "enhance spell effect outside normal parameters", that could be increase the range in an unusual way, for example to cast a curse to a target with some part of him (like in the voodoo) so you enhance the range in an unusual way, etc.

And, as I mentioned before, for some effects typical of rituals, like invoke a god or create special alchemy effects.

[Nders]

In rm2 you chose a type of spell or a spell list for your magical ritual spell. As I remember it can be either pretty specific (Demonic gate spells) or rather general (Enchanting spells) I have used it in the stricter form i.e. where you choose a spell and develop your ritual for that. I allow it to function for all the various levels of the spell in question though e.g. magical ritual in create undead would work for create undead I-VI.
This has worked very well for us for a long time.

[Dark Schneider]

So, allow to cast spells by rituals, but in the other way, more restricted in effect, but more flexible in use.

you can force your hybrid spell-users to choose which kind of ritual they want to perform

That could be a solution for hybrids.

[Nders]

precisely

[Dark Schneider]

Another use could be with the original description, enhance spell parameters, but with other meaning than spell mastery, it could be out of usual, maybe some examples:

- The priest bless for king and his knights that lasts the whole battle (duration enhance).
- The evil sorcerer that curse someone not present (range enhance) using some body part of the target.

I am looking at mentalism companion because it has some guidelines for level modifiers about this, the other question is determine the ritual categories as all realms should have the same ones (in number) as all realms have the same effects (enhancing spells params).

In the 1st example (bless for a battle), it is a bless 10'R with duration increased to 10 hours or 1 day. The base level for ritual would be the spell level.

This could cover some cases that could be possible (we have seen them in many sites) but not covered by only spells (as there are no bless that last hours).

But, in this case, see that we need to cast the spell, as we are enhancing it, not creating its effect. So we need:

- Know the spell and the ritual.
- Cast the spell at the same time that ends the ritual, the total PPs used are the spell level + ritual level.

[Dark Schneider]

[I can't edit the previous post]

It is easy to abuse with this system, but at the same time it is easy to evade abuse, for important changes, there is a need for a reason, with the bless example I can explain it:

- As we are changing the duration so much, we need a reason, the reason could be a conquer campaign, then, the kingdom high priest bless the king in a ceremony (the ritual) and cast a Bless spell with a duration of weeks, months or maybe permanent (depending on priest level), but this bless doesn't work permanently, as the reason is the campaign against other countries, the bless only works in battles against enemy army, so if you are attacked by bandits, or decide to explore ruins, or any other thing, bless doesn't work in this case, you would need to cast the spell on target normally.
See that, although we use the permanent ritual, the bless ends at the same time that the campaign against enemy.