Topic: Combat Companion overview?

[shnar]

The Combat Companion looks very interesting,  but I was wondering if there was a more detailed overview of what it offers other than what's listed on the webstore? For example, how does the Armor by the Piece work? What are Combat Styles exactly? How will this affect existing campaigns (RM2 and RMSS), etc. What of the new weapons charts?

-shnar

[PiXeL01]

Ok, here is a quicky

First of all Armor by Piece isnt compatible with Arms Law tables. The number of ATs have been reduced and all armor have divided into a number of part (I think ten) . The Breast Plate sets the AT(now called AR for armor rating) and every piece added to the armor gives a number of DB depending on location and material.

Combat Styles is basically the style in which your character is taught to fight. Think Kong Fu with its many ways and you go it, just with weapons instead. Each style has its maneuveurs you can do in a round. The more options the more expensive the style. It could be a simple style with Mace and Shield (very cheap) or it could be a style where you have been trained to use your shield as a fortress while swinging at multiple enemies, multiple times.
it is basically MA coverted into weapons/directed spells/missile weapons though everybody cannot do everything.

It will make Melee more interesting and colorful as there are more options instead of just punch and parry. it is a nice leg up for None spell users compared to the Spell users. Personally I havent used the Armor by Piece rules, but i have witnessed the effect of Combat Styles.

The charts are in my humble opinion the least interesting point of the book (which is in all other way GREAT). The charts are for catagories instead of individual weapons and there is only one(!) crit table pr catagory. You have to use these tables if you go with armor by piece ...

[shnar]

So the charts are like MERP/RMExpress? A general weapon one with a crit that adds/subtracts based on severity?

Oh, so the weapon charts just have 10 'armor types'? (instead of 20 in ArmsLaw). So if my char wore a breatplate with a chain shirt underneath that stretched over arms (i.e. like grieves) and leather leg grieves, that translate to something like AR 10 +15DB or something?

I was hearing that the combat styles gives good reason for Arms Users to develop past 20 ranks (or so). What skills does this elimiinate? Backstroke? Disarm? Shield Bash? 2 Weapon Combo? Mounted Combat? etc. And I'm still not sure how that works (guess I gotta get the book ).

-shnar

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

So the charts are like MERP/RMExpress? A general weapon one with a crit that adds/subtracts based on severity?

Similar, yes. The critical tables can also be adjusted via the  Special Maneuvers from the combat styles as well.

Each of the Combat Tables (attack table and crit table) are based on general weapon types (short blades, long blades, bows, crossbows, crushing weapons, bashing weapons, etc). There are 19 Combat Tables in total.

Oh, so the weapon charts just have 10 'armor types'? (instead of 20 in ArmsLaw). So if my char wore a breatplate with a chain shirt underneath that stretched over arms (i.e. like grieves) and leather leg grieves, that translate to something like AR 10 +15DB or something?

The armor pieces are as follows: Helm; Gorget; Pauldrons; Gauntlets; Bracers; Cuirass; Greaves; Boots; Shirt.

The Cuirass covers the torso, abdoman and groin areas. The Shirt adds shoulder coverage (i.e. pauldrons) as well. The Cuirass provides no mods to DB, while the shirt gives 1 increment for the shoulder coverage.

For a shirt that covers to the wrist, you would essentially have a shirt and bracers made of chain. This is normally AR 8 (6 DB).

If you though a Plate cuirass over that, you would have AR 10 (6 DB), but also increased maneuver penalties from layering armor.

On the other hand, you could just say that you have a Plate cuirass, and chain pauldrons and bracers, to get the same AR (DB) without getting the increased penalties.

Armor by the Piece - it is designed to allow for mixing and matching. 

I was hearing that the combat styles gives good reason for Arms Users to develop past 20 ranks (or so). What skills does this elimiinate? Backstroke? Disarm? Shield Bash? 2 Weapon Combo? Mounted Combat? etc. And I'm still not sure how that works (guess I gotta get the book ).

There are a number of special options that can be included in styles along with a number of Specific Maneuvers. (in one issue of Express Additions, there is also an option for purchasing Specific Maneuvers outside of styles).

Many of the Specific Maneuvers allow for OB, DB, Init, or Critical adjustments, with limitations on how big of an adjustment being based on how many ranks in the style you have (ie. Killing Strike - for every -1 to both OB and DB, you get +1 to your Crit roll (if you get a crit), but the crit adjustment cannot be higher than the number of ranks in the style).

The styles, options and specific maneuvers fully replace just about every skill you listed up there (not "Mounted Combat", that is for using a style while on horseback, not a separate style in itself).

It also eliminate the individual weapon skills in the core rules. Those are styles also. You can get a style for a single weapon or for a whole group of weapons. (i.e. Short Blades). The most basic style is the equivalent any current weapon skill. (i.e. you can attack and/or parry).

The DP costs for the styles are based on how complex the style is and what profession (i.e. the cost of weapon cat 1). The styles can also be used to create styles for natural weapons and directed spells, etc.

Very versatile, I think (but then again, I AM biased....). 

[thrud]

We're just trying out the new combat style rules and so far I like it.

[shnar]

Each of the Combat Tables (attack table and crit table) are based on general weapon types (short blades, long blades, bows, crossbows, crushing weapons, bashing weapons, etc). There are 19 Combat Tables in total.

Are the crits different for each weapon type too? I recall a mention that if there was enough sales and positive feedback, the charts would be increased for individual weapons (instead of weapon groups, though I have *no* problem for weapon groups and actually kind of like them better, similar to how SM2 handled things). As others have noted, the crits is what makes RM come alive. Having expanded Crit tables would be cool, especially if the crits per weapon type

I guess I'll have to pick up a copy today...

-shnar

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Each group has its own set of criticals. The crits for Short Blades are different than those for Long Blades and different from those for Great Blades, etc..

[shnar]

Sweet. Well, broke down and bought the hardback + pdf (plus all 10 EAs, printing them now). One question as I'm browsing through this, how interdependant are these new options, specifically AbtP, Combat Styles, and Condensed Combat? I mean, if I use AbtP, do I have to use the Condensed Combat? If I use Styles, do I have to use AbtP? etc.

-shnar

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

If using the AbtP, the you will need to use the Condensed Combat (that being one of the reasons for the new combat tables), but the styles work with regular Arms Law just fine.

[shnar]

Oo! I'm looking at the CCS charts and LOVE them! This is something I've been wanting for a LOONNNG time with RM. A 1-sheet-for-combat system. I know some people may want the granular detail of individual charts, but these types of charts will smooth out game play a lot. I do think I'll miss the alternate crit charts, but I *love* the idea that a Crossbow crit is different from a Bow crit!

Major Kudos!

-shnar

[giulio.trimarco]

Hi there,

I've bought the complete RMC line.

In the "pack" I've also the Combat Companion, so be it. 

I've had occasion to read the book.
Who can explain the differences betweem AL and CC tables?

Aside from cosmetic changes, I can't catch. I was expecting colled shots, as is the armor by the piece seems to me a more complex way to come up with an AT.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The core RMC armor system is 1 out of 20 specific suits of armor. There is little to no leeway in the system for unusual suits or for building a suit out of bits and pieces of armor scavenged along the way.

The CC Armor by the Piece rules are a little more complex than just pick one of 20 pre-designed suits, but it allows for that freedom and creativity. Adding flexibility to a system will always increase its complexity to some degree. The trick is to do it in a manner that keeps that complexity to a minimum, and I think that we achieved that in CC.

One of the biggest differences in the two systems is that in CC, there are NOT 20 specific suits/types of armor. Instead, there are 10 armor ratings, grading the value of the protectiveness of the armor.

As for the combat tables in CC, they were designed to be used with the Armor by the Piece rules presented in the same book. Because of 1-20 AT of Arms Law versus the 1-20 AR of CC, the Arms Law tables would not work with the AbtP rules, so we created new attack/critical tables.

However, instead of just copying the same format/style of the Arms Law Tables, where is it 1 weapon per table, or even 1 of the standard weapon categories, we instead divided the weapons into groups based on similar size and/or usage. Thus short blades use a different table and do a different critical than long blades do.

As for called shots -- that would be called Ambush/Sniping and already exists in Rolemaster (though perhaps not to the degree some might like).

[giulio.trimarco]

MMMmmmm...

yes, but the pieces... what kind of difference there is by worning an iron breastplate, calf leather boots, studded pouldron, from having AT 15, under the AL system?

To me it seems the some.

In the new system it is, for example, AT 7 BD +15, under AL it's AT 15.

 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Actually, AT 15 would be AR 8 DB 19 in the Combat Companion AbtP system.  Page 36 of the Combat Companion contains an AT to AR conversion table.

yes, but the pieces... what kind of difference there is by worning an iron breastplate, calf leather boots, studded pouldron, from having AT 15, under the AL system?

In Arms Law, that would be AT 17 (no greaves listed). The boots and the pauldrons would have no effect on AT or DB unless they were exceptional and gave a DB bonus.

In Combat Companion, that would be

Plate Cuirass == AR 10 DB 0
Soft Leather Boots == DB 1.5
Studded Leather Pauldrons == DB 2
Total == AR 10 DB 4 (3.5 rounded up).

The biggest difference between the 2 systems is that in the Arms Law system, things like helms and bracers and greaves and so forth have no impact on DB. In some ATs, they have an impact on AT (specifically AT 9/10 and AT 17/18). Such items might, maybe also have an impact on damage from certain criticals.

In the Combat Companion AbtP system, such items DO have an impact on the overall DB, but do not impact AR at all (AR being determined by the armor worn on the largest portion of the body). Plus, the same sort of impact on criticals still holds sway.

[giulio.trimarco]

Actually, AT 15 would be AR 8 DB 19 in the Combat Companion AbtP system.  Page 36 of the Combat Companion contains an AT to AR conversion table.

It was an example. Not to be correct 

In Arms Law, that would be AT 17 (no greaves listed). The boots and the pauldrons would have no effect on AT or DB unless they were exceptional and gave a DB bonus.

In Combat Companion, that would be

Plate Cuirass == AR 10 DB 0
Soft Leather Boots == DB 1.5
Studded Leather Pauldrons == DB 2
Total == AR 10 DB 4 (3.5 rounded up).

But I can always say that a breastplate is AT 10, Leather boots gives a +0,5 AT, Studded Pouldron a +1 AT.

The biggest difference between the 2 systems is that in the Arms Law system, things like helms and bracers and greaves and so forth have no impact on DB. In some ATs, they have an impact on AT (specifically AT 9/10 and AT 17/18). Such items might, maybe also have an impact on damage from certain criticals.

It sound the some to me.

In the Combat Companion AbtP system, such items DO have an impact on the overall DB, but do not impact AR at all (AR being determined by the armor worn on the largest portion of the body). Plus, the same sort of impact on criticals still holds sway.

I can obtain the some result assigning various AT values to armor pieces, using the some AL tables.

What I mean is that if I worn a breastplate (AR 10), and all leather on the rest of the body (DB 12?), what I got is AR 10 DB 12.

So, my arm is protected. It's not harmed less than... a warrior with a breastplate and Helm, Gorget, Greaves and Boot, all of plate.

The second warrior has no arms protections, but got the some DB (more or less), because wearing an higher DB armor.

Added computation for the some exact result that we have with the AL ATs.

[shnar]

Not at all. With AL, you are restricted to what you can wear, period. I can't tell you how many times my players have wanted to wear all Leather BUT also a Breast Plate. How do you do that in AL? Do you use AT 10 with a bonuc or AT 16 with a penalty? And then what if you really missmatch the armor? Such as Leather leggings, Chain Shirt, Plate Gauntlets, etc. A smart GM can of course just figure a "base" AT to use, but it's not written in stone, and Rules Lawyers have a field day with you when you do.

Now, with the AbtP system (Armor By The Piece), you can very easily simulate miss-matching armors. The added complication is very minor, since it's very rarely (only when the characters change armor, and how often does that happen?), but adds a lot of flavor and customizations. My players love it.

And honestly, even if we didn't have AbtP, my players LOVE the fact that the new crits are more tailored to the TYPE of weapon, not just the type of crit. In other words, an arrow /should/ do different crits than a rapier. In AL, you only get the Piercing crit, that's it. In the Condenced Combat system, you get crits for Arrows and crits for Long Blades. LOVE IT! (just wish we had MORE! )

-shnar

[giulio.trimarco]

Mmmmm...
AbtP is only cosmetic.

Mixing and matching dosen't bear modification of combat resolution over chosing ATs.

The table bear differences, of course.

[shnar]

In Arm's Law, mixing and matching *isn't allowed*. It's a lot more than cosmetic. In Arm's Law, you pick one of the armor types, that's it. No choice what so ever. I cannot wear a Plate Helm, a Chain Shirt, Leather Leggings and Plate Gauntlets. There is no Armor Type that reflects that kind of armor.

In AbtP, however, you can do exactly that.

-shnar

[thrud]

I like the idea behind AbtP but we need an all togeather new Arms Law to make it really interesting. As I understand things CC's AbtP rules are only a trial run and scaled down to get a working model but it is in no way complete and not a real replacement for Arms Law. It works but it's not fully fleshed out as of yet.

[giulio.trimarco]

In Arm's Law, mixing and matching *isn't allowed*. It's a lot more than cosmetic. In Arm's Law, you pick one of the armor types, that's it. No choice what so ever. I cannot wear a Plate Helm, a Chain Shirt, Leather Leggings and Plate Gauntlets. There is no Armor Type that reflects that kind of armor.

In AbtP, however, you can do exactly that.

Shnar,

you can mix and match what?
All you get is an AR and a DB.

You CAN do the SOME with the ATs!

Cloth Tunic Shirt: AT 1
Boiled leather brestplate: AT 7
Boiled studded leather breastplate: AT 8
Augmented chain mail: AT 14
Brigandine: AT 15
Banded Mail: AT 16
Plate breastplate: AT 18
Riveted Plate Breastplate: AT 20

If you want you can assign DB to greaves and helmet.

And you have the AbtP.