Topic: Throwing melee weapons - weapon OB or throwing OB?

[Frabby]

(If this has been discussed already then I've been unable to find the discussion - please post a link in that case.)

A point that frequently pops up in our group:

Say you're fighting with a melee weapon that can be thrown and has range penalties noted in its attack table (e.g. a dagger, hand axe or javelin).
You wish to throw the weapon at an opponent that you cannot reach otherwise (say he's standing on a nearby rooftop).

What OB do you use? Can the melee OB be used, or do you need to have a "Thrown" OB with this particular weapon? Or a generic "Thrown Weapon" OB? Or can you choose which skill (OB) to use?

[jdale]

I've always read it as requiring the Thrown skill for the weapon. E.g. Thrown Dagger. You couldn't use the Melee version of the Dagger skill. If you could, why have a Thrown skill at all?

This also makes the stats more appropriate. Melee is based on Ag/St/St, while Thrown is based on Ag/Ag/St, giving more weight to agility when throwing.

[yammahoper]

Throwing OB.

A kind GM would allow similar skill rule.

[markc]

Throwing  OB, the penalty is for a weapon being unbalanced to throw.
 A house rule that I use is a weapon is designed for throwing or melee use, if used for the other activity it gets an additional -10 to the roll. This has worked very well foe me.
MDC

[Frabby]

Okay, I see you're all agreeing on a rather restricted approach. I wish the rulebooks had been a bit clearer on the issue.

The main argument brought forward in my group is that for many smaller weapons such as dagger or hand axe, throwing is considered a natural attack mode; it's highly unlikely that someone would learn to fight with the weapon but not to throw it.

How do you determine the throwing OB for items that aren't weapons with tables (stones, bottles, casks, grappling hooks, underwear, and whatever else PCs tend to throw in their enemies' faces)? Your line of argumentation seems to preclude Brawling OB. Is there a generic Thrown Weapon skill for such items?

[Ynglaur]

It's probably reasonable to either use the Similar Skill rule for thrown "brawling" objects, or to just allow Brawling (Thrown) as a skill.  Personally, I never really liked the brawling rules.  I think it was an attempt to make combat less lethal, but honestly: if you're swinging a chair, unless you've developed skill in 2-H: Chair, your OB is low enough it's not likely to be lethal anyways.

[yammahoper]

A thrown stone would be a small bash attack and use Thrown OB for rock.  In certain circumstance, fall/crush table may be appropriate.

Thrown underwear would be a small grapple attack, small tiny attack if crusty.

OB is by skill, or appropriate stat x3 if no skill.

If you wish to house rule thrown weapons, do so.  Your reasoning seems solid to me.  I, for example, do not use the Pole Arm category.  Pole Arms are TH Weapons and are placed in that category.  I do not use Qu penalties for armor because those penalties are built into the attack tables.  Go with what you think is right.  Make the game yours.

[arakish]

Thrown weapons would use the same attack table as the Melee Weapons.  The only difference is that the thrown weapon allows you to attack at range (minus distance modifiers).

Although throwing a hand axe may seem as natural as melee, the two are still quite different skills.  Just because I can melee with a hand axe does not mean I can throw it well.  Obversely, just because I can throw a hand axe and hit a dime at a 100 feet does not mean I melee with it well.  Make sense?

And yes, you can develop melee hand axe and still throw it, but you will also receive the -30 (or -25 in RMC/RM2) no ranks modifier when throwing it.

rmfr

[yammahoper]

P.S. I do not think Brawling requires a thrown skill.  Brawling is a Special Attack and something of a catch all skill.

[gog]

Also along with this there are some spell lists that allow for the melee OB to be used when throwing (Warrior's Weapon comes to mind), thus suggesting that normally it would be the throwing OB

[Malleable]

P.S. I do not think Brawling requires a thrown skill.  Brawling is a Special Attack and something of a catch all skill.

The brawling (throw) is a judo/aikido throw.  'Throw', not 'thrown'.