Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Shadow World => Topic started by: Destyar on May 08, 2014, 04:05:29 PM
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When does the dead tree version of this come out?
Thanks,
--Desty
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At least a Print-on-demand Version would be great!
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I actually did the layout and cover for this, but wanted to do another proofread pass, because I read somewhere that there were several typos late in the book. So it is kind of stalled right now. :-\
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In anticipation of a dead-tree edition, I am offering the Loremaster Legacy ebook version (in 3 formats!) at a substantial discount for a limited time!
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy)
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That is very cheap!
I bought the kindle version 2 weeks ago and it was worth the cover price then. Amusingly enough, our GM must have read this a while ago as I have played though some of the same situations in his game as I have now read in the book, same situation, same characters and broadly same outcome!
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That is very cheap!
I bought the kindle version 2 weeks ago and it was worth the cover price then. Amusingly enough, our GM must have read this a while ago as I have played though some of the same situations in his game as I have now read in the book, same situation, same characters and broadly same outcome!
Glad you liked it (and please take a moment to post a review!). I have suggested that Loremaster Legacy has some value as a source of Shadow World game information before, and glad to hear that it is being used as such.
I'm curious what scenario you encountered? ;)
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I don't want to spoil anything, but the White Swan and his associate should give you a clue.
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I don't want to spoil anything, but the White Swan and his associate should give you a clue.
Nice! Indeed, you could run a whole series of adventures just sailing through the Melurian Straits.
Hear that, GMs? Tons of adventure ideas in Loremaster Legacy! 8)
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921 (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
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I will pass on writing a review. I haven't finished it yet so to review something I haven't finished yet would be unfair.
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I will pass on writing a review. I haven't finished it yet so to review something I haven't finished yet would be unfair.
I understand of course, but when you finish, please do if you have the chance, and of course be objective!
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I'll leave a review on Amazon.co.uk
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Terry,
You said you were hunting down typos in the text. I have just found one, you may already have corrected this but...
I am in the Kindle version so I don't have a page number for you.
At 53% Veriak is speaking to Lady Valris
The exact line reads...
"Ah so there are limits even you your power? Veriak raised his head then cocked an eyebrow.
You need a closing quote after the question mark and I assume that 'you' should be 'to'. In British English we would have a comma after 'Ah' but I know you colonial types play fast and loose with the poor old mother tongue :P
Hope that helps.
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Terry,
You said you were hunting down typos in the text. I have just found one, you may already have corrected this but...
I am in the Kindle version so I don't have a page number for you.
At 53% Veriak is speaking to Lady Valris
The exact line reads...
"Ah so there are limits even you your power? Veriak raised his head then cocked an eyebrow.
You need a closing quote after the question mark and I assume that 'you' should be 'to'. In British English we would have a comma after 'Ah' but I know you colonial types play fast and loose with the poor old mother tongue :P
Hope that helps.
Thanks, yes this is helpful! Any others with typo corrections please feel free to post or email me directly (email in my profile)
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Hi,
At 59%
The sentence reads...
He withdrew his painterly tough, straghtened, and examined the new blinking light patterns.
Should 'tough' read 'touch'? Grammaticaly you should never use a comma before the word 'and' unless of course 'and' is in itself a list item which is not in this instance.
Talking of 'And's...
The next two sentences are...
Then he splayed his hands out, touched the black glass in a couple of spots in a complex pattern like some sort of musician. And indeed, the device emitted different soft musical chimes as he touched.
The word 'and' is a conjunction used for joining two sentence parts. If you removed the full stop (period) after musician the two sentences would read correctly as one or lose the unnecessary word 'And'.
I feel I am being really horrible and critical, there is no way on earth I could ever write a novel myself but I spent six months proof reading health and safety policies and fire safety risk assessments. They are soul destroying to read and you want to end it all after eight hours of them but they must be grammatically perfect for fear of litigation.
I have a five hour train journey tomorrow so I hope to spend the whole time in Shadow World.
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Hi,
At 59%
The sentence reads...
He withdrew his painterly tough, straghtened, and examined the new blinking light patterns.
Should 'tough' read 'touch'? Grammaticaly you should never use a comma before the word 'and' unless of course 'and' is in itself a list item which is not in this instance.
Talking of 'And's...
The next two sentences are...
Then he splayed his hands out, touched the black glass in a couple of spots in a complex pattern like some sort of musician. And indeed, the device emitted different soft musical chimes as he touched.
The word 'and' is a conjunction used for joining two sentence parts. If you removed the full stop (period) after musician the two sentences would read correctly as one or lose the unnecessary word 'And'.
I feel I am being really horrible and critical, there is no way on earth I could ever write a novel myself but I spent six months proof reading health and safety policies and fire safety risk assessments. They are soul destroying to read and you want to end it all after eight hours of them but they must be grammatically perfect for fear of litigation.
I have a five hour train journey tomorrow so I hope to spend the whole time in Shadow World.
Hi thanks for the input. However, I'm afraid that I have a difference of opinion with you here. The comma before the 'and' is known as a serial comma, and whether to use it or not is a matter of style.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma)
And, it is technically not incorrect to begin a sentence with the word 'and;' again it is a style choice.
http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/01/can-i-start-a-sentence-with-a-conjunction/ (http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/01/can-i-start-a-sentence-with-a-conjunction/)
But I appreciate your other findings!
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Hi Terry,
I found 3 typos but frustratingly I can only remember two of them. I found them last week on my way to Switzerland and I tried to commit them to memory... it was never going to work was it.
1st is my favourite. The sentence reads
The rider was a young man garbed all in shades of grey, a Loin-head emblem on his tabard and a staff in his hand.
I assume that should be Lion-head?
The second is...
“First, young lady, I am not offering you charity; you will world hard for your pay . And as to who I am… have you heard of the Loremasters?”
Work not world?
The third one was after that in the book but I simply cannot remember what it was.
Hope that helps.
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I am just skim reading trying to find that last typo when I spotted these.
...The question is,” he paused and looked over at the cousins with a grave face, “Will the storm stop at the bay?”
If you extract the dialogue you get this with a rogue capital W in the middle of the sentence.
The question is, Will the storm stop at the bay?
In British English the word drone in this sentence would not have a capital letter.
Even as he referred to it, the Drone’s tentacles wavered in his direction , as if they were sensors of some kind.
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Ah damn.. I am too much of a SW junkie to pass this up..
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As I am tinkering with LL II, I wonder how much readers would prefer more interwoven plots with more characters in different places, whith the original main characters (in this case, Jad and Kalen) becoming just one thread, and they interact with 3-4 other groups peripherally outside of their own thread.
C.J. Cherryh did this masterfully in her Merovingen Nights series, though after the first book she served as mostly editor, and had others each writing a 'thread' and they were all centered around the same city. In this case they would travel more widely, but certain key characters (e.g., Randae, or another Loremaster, or a Navigator) would tie them together in some way.
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I think sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't. It depends, really, on the number of different threads and the amount of time spent on each to a large extent.
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I'm re-taking this hijacked thread...
Any new news on the dead-tree version?
Please advise.
Thanks,
-Desty
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I'm re-taking this hijacked thread...
Any new news on the dead-tree version?
Please advise.
Thanks,
-Desty
Oh, dear, it kind of fell of my radar. Thanks for reminding me, as it really would not be that difficult for me to pull it together. Though someone recently suggested that I should add an appendix with a list of the main characters and brief bios, because there are so many...
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Though someone recently suggested that I should add an appendix with a list of the main characters and brief bios, because there are so many...
And maybe a Glossary as well, for readers unfamiliar with Shadow World. Could help with people who aren't existing fans.
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Though someone recently suggested that I should add an appendix with a list of the main characters and brief bios, because there are so many...
And maybe a Glossary as well, for readers unfamiliar with Shadow World. Could help with people who aren't existing fans.
I thought there was a glossary... but I will check...
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I finally got around to posting an Amazon.co.uk review for Loremaster Legacy. Not sure if it is approved yet.
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I thought there was a glossary... but I will check...
Oops, there is. I'd forgotten.
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But good point about the characters; there are quite a few, and I could do short bios...
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But good point about the characters; there are quite a few, and I could do short bios...
HUZZAH! Great idea on the bios.
Hammer that baby out and get this bad boy to print! :)
Thanks,
--Desty
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Heya,
I also would appreciate a print-on-demand version. Even though Rolemaster books keep stacking up left and right on my table, I sincerely welcome the experience of opening a book. If it is not too much of a stretch, please open up that possibility.
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I honestly did not realize there was this much interest in a dead tree edition! And now there are plugins for Indesign to produce ebook versions in all formats, so I could re-release the ebook (free update of course) at the same time with a cleaner format, along with a trade-size paperback. Guess I better get to work.
And yes the second book is still in the works...
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I honestly did not realize there was this much interest in a dead tree edition! And now there are plugins for Indesign to produce ebook versions in all formats, so I could re-release the ebook (free update of course) at the same time with a cleaner format, along with a trade-size paperback. Guess I better get to work.
And yes the second book is still in the works...
I have not yet made myself read a full-book in electronic form. And, yes, I will have to "make" myself do it, as it just feels wrong to not hold a book in my hand - I guess that is my "old-man" curse. As of now, I will always prefer a physical copy of a book to the electronic - if I live to 500 that might change: keep your TVs tuned folks!
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That is interesting, I read one book on Kindle and was hooked. I now find paper books cumbersome and awkward and I avoid them at all costs.
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I think it is a psychological thing, unconsciously I relate reading a book to good childhood memories. Plus, the power can run down on an electronic reader, but not a book. ;D
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the power thing is true but a charge on a kindle lasts about a month.
I find it so much more comfortable to read from and to hold than a book.
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I will have to give kindle a try. The book reader I have seen so far was from a colleague at work. It was a white device with an ink type display, don't remember the brand. The only thing I do know is that I do not connect with this type of information device. I deal with digitized information all day long and I find it gratifying to hold the physical evidence of a creative act in my hand. No switch, no battery, no breaker, no format incompatibilities, no pixels, no DRM, no dependencies. A candle will suffice to delve into it's secrets. I know this is a romanticized view and it boils down to personal opinion, but hey, sometimes it feels good to be a dinosaur.
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I felt the same pretty much until I tried it. I work in IT as well but it is not like reading a screen.
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I'm old-school as well. I regularly check out books from the library, and have a huge collection of paperbacks. I even bought library editions online of some of my favorite books from when I was a teen. I love the old book smell!
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I'm also old school. It's not just the smell it's... I don't really know, the look of them. I currently have 3 bookcases full and a large box full of books awaiting the purchase of another bookcase. Just looking at them, at all the knowledge and stories, at the books different personalities, that's why I will never change to a kindle.
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Yes it is a lot of things (though they say that smell is a powerful memory trigger). I like just having the old editions of books that influenced me so much, with the covers that I remember as a kid. And I have collected several editions of favorites like the Lord of the Rings, and Rendezvous With Rama (one paperback had a fold-out picture of the interior of Rama!)
I'm not against e-readers (though I do not own a Kindle or iPad), but there's something special about a real book.
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That is funny as I cannot bear the smell of books and never could. I was a massive library user and would be constantly ordering books in to my local library just so I could read series in order and I would buy books from charity shops, read and then donate it back to them so I didn't have to keep them in the house.
We had one book case and that was for the childrens books as I felt it was important for them to have books around when they were small.
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A good question will be in the future will e-book readers provide the same impressions that physical books did for our generation?
MDC
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Yes I imagine they will. I think the impression is created by the words and worlds in the books rather than the slowly rotting dead tree pulp itself.
Surely the same discussion has been held in the world of musing bemoaning the 'death' of the vinyl record when CDs arrived and then the death of CDs when downloads arrived. What actually happened is that there were enough people who wanted vinyl for it to re-emerge and is still available today.
There is no need for publishers to do print runs of books now. Print on demand means that every book can always be in print. Whether it is ordered into your local bookshop or delivered by Amazon you can still get it within about 48hrs.
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I have had a Sony Reader and now have a tablet, and read books on those, and even read them on my phone too now, but I still prefer dead tree (with over 4,000 pieces of evidence to prove that). For one thing, I find it much easier to switch between different pages in a book, swapping back and forth to check on things. I have bought books solely as ebooks, but those that are available in hardcopy I plan to pick up in that format at some point.
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What about reading on a LDC TV? Do any of you plop down in front of your 60"+ LCD TV and read an e-book?
MDC
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No, I wouldn't even consider it.
I haven't used the Sony reader mentioned above but with a Kindle it is not like reading a screen. It is as comfortable to read as paper and it is the same intimate experience as being absorbed in a book. I do read on my phone where I have the kindle app. I only do that when I have a bit of time to kill. I like the way that opening the book on my phone and it opens at exactly the point I stop reading previously. I can read two pages and then when I open the book on my kindle it has also moved on two pages. I don't like reading on lcd screens, laptops or tablets.
I will on the other hand send longer pdf or word documents to my kindle to read there to avoid reading on screen.
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What about reading on a LDC TV? Do any of you plop down in front of your 60"+ LCD TV and read an e-book?
MDC
I'm with PeterR; I'd never consider reading a book on a tv screen. On the other hand, I would never want to try to read a book on my iPhone either, but that is partly because my eyesight is getting worse. I have been badly nearsighted with an astigmatism starting when I was 10, and now I am getting farsighted, so need different glasses to read a book or the computer screen. I can read a book with no glasses or contacts, but only if I hold it very close. Ah, aging!
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I read on my smartphone because I have it on me when I'm out, so it's a handy source of books, and my PlayBook can't read DRM-protected Kindle books, so it's the only thing I've got that will read them (bar the PC, which is not comfortable). The screen is almost large enough, but it's not the best platform. I had to go to varifocals last year - I decided to have one pair of expensive glasses rather than two pairs, one of which I might end up forgetting.
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Books are not perfect and ereaders and digital media is not perfect but no one is being forced to choose one over the other and neither media is going away.
Ironically bookophiles like to point to the fact that books don't run out of power, get corrupted or lose everything and that books will still be around in hundreds of years time as a historical record. Whereas the truth is that nearly every book published in the last 60 years was printed on paper that was either especially designed to degrade or contained bleach that is slowly eating it up and modern inks are not permenant but fade. So none of the popular books of our age will ever be part of our historical record do be discovered by archelogist of the future.
On the other hand my first ever computer was a ZX81 and I can still load programs from tape into my PC and run them within a virtual machine. So the constantly evolving world of data that one imagines things become obsolete so quickly has a longevity way beyond the lifetime of the hardware required to use the data that created it. I can migrate data from audio tape to dvd in seconds and make an unlimted number of copies.
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Peter, on the other hand, I was recently asked for my files for Kult, and I had stored them on 3.5" magneto-optical rewritable disks (which seemed like state of the art, back in the mid-90's--burning CDs at your computer was still really new). However, I tossed that drive out long ago because it used a SCSI interface. I still have the disks, and maybe there is some service out there that can get the data...
And yes, many books--especially paperbacks--are printed on cheap, acidic paper that deteriorates (though I had not heard of them made to deliberately self-destruct!). When I was a kid, I read my mother's Nancy Drew books, and the yellowed paper in them would literally break off if your folded it. Back when I worked at the U.Va. library, acid deterioration in books was a real problem.
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I like to think of it as biodegradeable rather than self destruction. I am no Ethan Hunt or that woul be the worst mission impossible movie ever.
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Funny that you mention the smell. Whenever I get a book in the mail, one of the first things I do is open it somewhere in the middle and smell it. Was it mainly to find out if it belonged to smokers (no danger with new books), I find myself enjoying this habit. It's the smell of adventure and good times. I am with you that a certain smell will trigger memories, emotions or maybe a certain state of mind. It goes together with the physical appreciation.
Concerning the planned obsolescence of some paperback books. I traced down the old 90s editions of some of my favorite novels. The paper turned yellow and the covers have faded but they are still "it".
Time to hit the hay. Gotta read some more ;D
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Here's one of the best arguments I've seen in favor of paper books: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/03/business/media/e-book-mingles-love-and-product-placement.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/03/business/media/e-book-mingles-love-and-product-placement.html)
To quote: And because the e-book cards are marked with individual download codes, they offer access to detailed information on how readers engage with the book, including how much time they spend immersed in it, how far into the story they read and whether they reread certain passages. “It delivers high-power analytics, which is much more valuable to advertisers,” said Arthur Klebanoff, the RosettaBooks chief executive.
Yep, anything electronic can be turned against you. (Kindle does the same, it's not just this example.)
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Yes, that is true partially true. If you read your kindle in airplane mode and put the books on the device using the usb cable then there is no data transfer back to Amazon. The data accessible by Amazon from the kindle comprises last page read, content archiving, available memory, up-time, log files, voice information and signal strength. By voice information that identifies which of the bundled reading voices you have selected.
Personal data collection is part and parcel of modern connected life and the worst example I have ever seen was the Angry Birds mobile game that monitored all your telephone calls, who you called, how long and how often and then tied that data to your social media accounts in an attempt to identify individuals and relationships. It also monitored your online site usage. The game was free and the company makes its money from the sale of data.
Google maintains a very impressive amount of data about every regular use. They have crossed a line in my person opinion and I have moved over to an alternative search provider (duckduckgo).
You pays your money and makes your choices as they say.
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So I am working on the PoD layout and doing a little cleanup and some content edits. There was an Amazon review about typos Anyone who read the ebook edition have any input? Thanks!
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Unfortunately, there were quite a few spelling/grammatical mistakes in the kindle version. So many so, that I gave up putting notes in....
But, I think that most of them have been picked up by other people in this thread.
At least the Kindle will automatically pick up new revisions when they are released.
Not as bad as the series I'm reading at the moment - they've obviously, heard about full-stops but didn't want any truck with them. They do use capitals to start sentences, however.
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Okay, I have added a little section on major characters, and I have made another reading pass, but I can't promise perfection. You know, reading your own work, you miss things, and I did ask proofreaders. Anyway, look for a new trade paperback edition of Loremaster Legacy with a new cover available in the next few weeks on the fiction site. I will post a link here when it is out.
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That could make nice Christmas present to some of my SW campaign players. But our last game session before C may come too soon...
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Peter, on the other hand, I was recently asked for my files for Kult, and I had stored them on 3.5" magneto-optical rewritable disks (which seemed like state of the art, back in the mid-90's--burning CDs at your computer was still really new). However, I tossed that drive out long ago because it used a SCSI interface. I still have the disks, and maybe there is some service out there that can get the data...
http://www.datarecoverymasters.com/magneto-optical_mo_transfer.php (http://www.datarecoverymasters.com/magneto-optical_mo_transfer.php)
I don't know the prices but completely by chance I found this site this morning. May be worth a call?
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Okay, I have added a little section on major characters, and I have made another reading pass, but I can't promise perfection. You know, reading your own work, you miss things, and I did ask proofreaders. Anyway, look for a new trade paperback edition of Loremaster Legacy with a new cover available in the next few weeks on the fiction site. I will post a link here when it is out.
My non-Amazon Kindle app mangled the text to a fair degree, making proofreading it rather tricky.
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Okay, I have added a little section on major characters, and I have made another reading pass, but I can't promise perfection. You know, reading your own work, you miss things, and I did ask proofreaders. Anyway, look for a new trade paperback edition of Loremaster Legacy with a new cover available in the next few weeks on the fiction site. I will post a link here when it is out.
My non-Amazon Kindle app mangled the text to a fair degree, making proofreading it rather tricky.
Ouch, sorry. I don't have a kindle, but I used the desktop Kindle app to look at it, and it seemed fine.
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I am going to spend the next few days concentrating on the Eidolon revision and Loremaster Legacy print version. Must be practical...
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Yes, unfortunately I was reading it in the BlackBerry PlayBook, which doesn't have an official app, so Kindle books don't always turn out so well. At least not in the UK; it may in the US. It's too uncomfortable reading it on a computer though.
I have better look with epub.
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I am giving it one last read-through before submitting it (and yes, there will be different cover art), but as the writer, I miss things. So last chance to send me your typos!
For the online versions, I have been testing the exports from InDesign and they seem kind of wonky, so we will see
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The dead tree edition is coming! It is now in process...
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Update: my files were approved, and a proof is on the way...
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Was the approval every in doubt or are congratulations in order? Will there be 'proud father' photos when the proof arrives?
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Was the approval every in doubt or are congratulations in order? Will there be 'proud father' photos when the proof arrives?
Hah hah, well there is a digital preflight that the files have to go through before they are approved for printing. You would think that I have it down to a science by now, but you never know, this is a different size format.
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The most impressive thing I think is that you managed to finish the book at all. I have started to write a novel at least 8 or 9 times and run out of steam after the first chapter every time.
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I have to admit that even I am kind of excited about seeing a printed copy of the thing. The people who have done the recent PoD modules do a great job, especially with the quality covers. And I am still quite proud of my copies of my old Spy in Isengard book in several languages :)
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I have to admit that even I am kind of excited about seeing a printed copy of the thing. The people who have done the recent PoD modules do a great job, especially with the quality covers. And I am still quite proud of my copies of my old Spy in Isengard book in several languages :)
Glad I was able to help to get the ball rolling! :) One question: Will we have the character bios?
Thanks,
--Desty
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I have to admit that even I am kind of excited about seeing a printed copy of the thing. The people who have done the recent PoD modules do a great job, especially with the quality covers. And I am still quite proud of my copies of my old Spy in Isengard book in several languages :)
Yes, I did add (very brief) character bios at the end for all the major people.
Glad I was able to help to get the ball rolling! :) One question: Will we have the character bios?
Thanks,
--Desty
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The Loremaster Legacy is now available in dead tree edition!
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921 (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
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The Loremaster Legacy is now available in dead tree edition!
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921 (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
Bought!
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I've just received a Kindle Paperwhite as an early Xmas present so I'm busy reading the Kindle version of this at the moment :)
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The Loremaster Legacy is now available in dead tree edition!
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921 (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
Bought
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The Loremaster Legacy is now available in dead tree edition!
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921 (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
Just downloaded the PDF version and bought the Dead Tree version. The PDF has NOT been updated with the character bios. Please, please tell me the printed version has them....
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The Loremaster Legacy is now available in dead tree edition!
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921 (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
Just downloaded the PDF version and bought the Dead Tree version. The PDF has NOT been updated with the character bios. Please, please tell me the printed version has them....
Yes, the print edition has brief character bios.
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The Loremaster Legacy is now available in dead tree edition!
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921 (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
Just downloaded the PDF version and bought the Dead Tree version. The PDF has NOT been updated with the character bios. Please, please tell me the printed version has them....
Yes, the print edition has brief character bios.
When can we expect the PDFs / electronic files to be updated?
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I'm not sure. The PDF is easy, but the other formats were exported out of Word with much difficulty.
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When I update the ebook version, that will be a free download to original purchasers of course.
So, buyers of the print version who have gotten it, what do you think?
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When I update the ebook version, that will be a free download to original purchasers of course.
So, buyers of the print version who have gotten it, what do you think?
Just received mine. It is absolutely gorgeous. I really like how the covers came out. The only problem I have found is that the maps didn't come out too well in black & white. They are really difficult to read in some places (or at all), but fortunately, the color PDF remedies that.
Also, something minor that was missed in proofing: The captain of the Naristral's name seems to morph from N'tagen (Chapter 6) to N'tanga (Chapter 7 and forward).
Thanks,
--Desty
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I noticed something similar with the colour map from Parsantium. It didn't come out so well in the black and white book. I know that's a supplement, not a fiction book, but I would assume they use the same printer.
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Yes, the print edition has brief character bios.
If you are talking about Appendix II: Important Characters, sure its there, but it generally only has a single line (some of them only 4-5 words long) on each character. I am thinking that the gamers here would like to have some "stats" on these guys, at least some of them. (Particularly those very important individuals who are not dealt with in any of the Shadow World sourcebooks.) I know I would.
The printed version does not have the Sel-Kai and Eidolon maps like the pdf.
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I think that character stats wouldn't be really suitable for a fiction book, but would be useful in a separate pdf.
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I think that character stats wouldn't be really suitable for a fiction book, but would be useful in a separate pdf.
Actually, we have discussed this. It would be a GCP/ICE production rather than Eidolon Studio, since it involves stats.
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I think that character stats wouldn't be really suitable for a fiction book, but would be useful in a separate pdf.
+1
There is possibility to friendly competition/discussion seed: after reading the book everybody could build stats based on what we think those should have been. (However almost all characters have stats presented in some SW book e.g. Halkiitaine has the stats for the boys around the beginning time of the story).
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I think that character stats wouldn't be really suitable for a fiction book, but would be useful in a separate pdf.
Actually, we have discussed this. It would be a GCP/ICE production rather than Eidolon Studio, since it involves stats.
Yes, I suppose you could actually make a pretty sizeable supplement full of all the NPCs, their history and stats.
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IMHO if it is in the book people who do not play a RPG may ask what is this and lead them to RM or other RPG's.
Maybe it does not have to be full PC sheets but a simple cut down sheet may aid SW RPgers also.
MDC
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I got the book in yesterday and cannot wait to read it.... Looks great so far.
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Sounds like a fun project. Also, if you like the hardcopy book (or the ebook) please review. Right now sales are not really enough for me to make the effort again. :-(
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Sounds like a fun project. Also, if you like the hardcopy book (or the ebook) please review. Right now sales are not really enough for me to make the effort again. :-(
That's a shame - sometimes it seems that writing something is far easier than selling it. You really need it to start spreading to the general fantasy audience.
Still, on the plus side, once a book is written and published as an ebook, it can still sell for years without any more effort.
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Just got my copy in the mail and it looks splendid! Thank you very much for making the book available for non-electronic readers.
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I recently was on holiday on a cruise ship and was reading the Loremasters novel (kindle edition) while onboard. In the second week we had some high winds and that caused issues with tendering or docking - we could really have done with having a navigator onboard to guarantee calm seas!
I thoroughly enjoyed the novel, review already submitted to Amazon (UK). I know Terry you've already stated a sequel isn't likely but it really is a shame as it's a great read and very evocative of Kulthea. For what it's worth I'll add my agreement to MarkC's comment from the 18th Dec - Shadow World brought me to Rolemaster - I'd not even heard of the rule system before I picked up the original Shadow World boxed set in a gaming store.
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...it's a great read and very evocative of Kulthea.
I can only second that. While sourcebooks and adventures set the stage for things to happen, there are always these little nagging questions behind the GMs right ear: "how would a patron in this part of the land react to such an act ?", "what does visually change on the other side of that border to nowhereland ?"
Loremaster Legacy is great because it binds the facts and descriptions from SW sourcebooks together in a fluent, descriptive way. I am still on my first read through but I have already found several pieces of information that I will tag on a second read through. Maybe some of the info is already contained in Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn? Just one more day ;)
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Loremaster Legacy review!
http://www.rolemasterblog.com/book-review-the-loremaster-legacy/ (http://www.rolemasterblog.com/book-review-the-loremaster-legacy/)
You can get it here: Loremaster Legacy (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
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Loremaster Legacy review!
http://www.rolemasterblog.com/book-review-the-loremaster-legacy/ (http://www.rolemasterblog.com/book-review-the-loremaster-legacy/)
You can get it here: Loremaster Legacy (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
Mr. Amthor,
I'm going to ask you point blank: Is there any truth to the rumor that you have given up on this series?
Please advise.
Thanks,
-Desty
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I thought Terry had just given up on producing dead tree versions because there was not enough return on the effort required.
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I thought Terry had just given up on producing dead tree versions because there was not enough return on the effort required.
When I got all that started, he had mentioned it would not be much of an effort to get the printed version up and running, so I really don't think that was what he was referring to.
Hopefully he will clear all of this up with a response.
Thanks,
Desty
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Loremaster Legacy review!
http://www.rolemasterblog.com/book-review-the-loremaster-legacy/ (http://www.rolemasterblog.com/book-review-the-loremaster-legacy/)
You can get it here: Loremaster Legacy (http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921)
Mr. Amthor,
I'm going to ask you point blank: Is there any truth to the rumor that you have given up on this series?
Please advise.
Thanks,
-Desty
According to this post (http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=13114.msg199228#msg199228), no.
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I'm sorry if there has been confusion about this lately. I did pretty much give up on the idea of continuing the series, because I was disappointed in the sales, and despite supposed interest in a dead-tree edition, after I produced it, there were few sales.
However, recent changes mean I might have more time available (when I need a break from writing SW and SM gaming material), so I have opened the old files and started work again on the next book. I'm hoping to hone my style somewhat.
TKA
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I don't know if others work the same way, but my purchasing process when it comes to ebooks is rather different from that of books in a bookshop.
If I'm unfamiliar with the author, I'm unlikely to buy the first book from them as an ebook (if I'm familiar with their work, as I am with yours, it's different), and will instead look for a freebie. Then, if I like the work, I will buy further books from them, which I have done quite a few times, from Smashwords and DrivethruFiction (not Amazon as I don't have an easy way of reading DRM-protected Kindle ebooks currently, and most Kindle books on Amazon are protected).
If I'm unfamiliar with their work, but I see it as a printed book in a shop, I'm much more likely to buy it - probably because for it to arrive in a bookshop it means that a company has invested a fair bit of time and money in it. (In the past I bought two authors simply because the cover artist (Josh Kirby, before he died) was also doing covers for the late, great Terry Pratchett.)
Publishing the first book in a series that currently stands at one for free is not really a solution. However, have you considered maybe offering some of the book as a free taster? Enough for readers to get a feel for it, and be more willing to part with their money.
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Of the 5 players in our group two including myself bought the first Loremaster book. The other person is our Shadow World GM and learned of the book from the Shadow World facebook page.
I bought the book through Amazon on the strength of the other persons recommendation.
I am not a fan of giving things away for free, if the author does not value it then it probably isn't worth the money. I do read free kindle books and they are often the first of the series but you can normally tell why they couldn't sell it and I have never gone on and bought a book from the same author. I do download free samples from Amazon before buying books from unknown authors and I do buy the discounted books from the Amazon Kindle book of the day.
As an aside, I once had a drink with Terry Pratchett at a pub in Wellington and he was a very strange man.
One thing that does normally put me off buying some books and that is when it is the first book of the series but the others have not been written. If others feel the same Terry may find that sales of the first book improve whent he subsequent books are published.
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I am not a fan of giving things away for free, if the author does not value it then it probably isn't worth the money. I do read free kindle books and they are often the first of the series but you can normally tell why they couldn't sell it and I have never gone on and bought a book from the same author. I do download free samples from Amazon before buying books from unknown authors and I do buy the discounted books from the Amazon Kindle book of the day.
You could just give away a few chapters, though, rather than an entire book. Some may not be willing to pay the full price if they don't know Terry's work.
As an aside, I once had a drink with Terry Pratchett at a pub in Wellington and he was a very strange man.
Loved his books though.
One thing that does normally put me off buying some books and that is when it is the first book of the series but the others have not been written. If others feel the same Terry may find that sales of the first book improve whent he subsequent books are published.
True; I hate starting a series only to find that it's never finished. Leaves you hanging, wondering what happened.
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I'm sorry if there has been confusion about this lately. I did pretty much give up on the idea of continuing the series, because I was disappointed in the sales, and despite supposed interest in a dead-tree edition, after I produced it, there were few sales.
However, recent changes mean I might have more time available (when I need a break from writing SW and SM gaming material), so I have opened the old files and started work again on the next book. I'm hoping to hone my style somewhat.
TKA
...AND THERE WAS MUCH REJOICING! YAY!
Thank you, sir.
Now.... if I could only get some answers on some of my other questions....
--Desty
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Oh, and not to go all George RR Martin, but some people are going to have to die in book two...
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That's is how I feel most Monday mornings when I look around the office but I normally get over it with no harm done.
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(I wish this forum could do 'likes' for comments, like FB.)
I vaguely remember doing a non-binding poll long ago about who to kill off; or maybe I just imagined it...
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I would be interested in feedback about what you liked most about the first book, and what you did not care for so much. You can be honest; you won't hurt my feelings (much, hah hah).
Most people seemed to like the window into the SW the most and that the world had actually become as much of a character as any of the actual people. That of course can be good and bad.
I actually enjoyed the first SW novel written by another author (Stormriders), even though it did deviate somewhat from my vision. But what I read of the later books (which I did not authorize) I did not care for.
I guess we'll see where this goes.
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Oh, and not to go all George RR Martin, but some people are going to have to die in book two...
Hope it's not too extreme; I stopped reading A Storm of Swords partway through.
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My favourite part of the first book was the sea journey. It had everything; the Navigator, an eassence storm, magic, technology, devious doings by characters and the plot thickening.
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I liked the Gryphon Library and Nomokos (sorry for the mispelling) events but the one with the attempted kidnapping at the hotel was good to. I also liked the description of different cities that are not modules yet...... I am waiting for more cities to come out for SW.....
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Oh, and not to go all George RR Martin, but some people are going to have to die in book two...
Hope it's not too extreme; I stopped reading A Storm of Swords partway through.
Oh no; I'm too attached to too many characters to go on a willing spree. But the cast has gotten rather bloated.
And thanks everyone for the feedback! I've been reviewing what I have done on Book II, we'll see how things go.
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I will of course review it for you once it is published for Kindle. I hope my book reviewing skills will have improved a bit by then too.
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Funny when you come back to something after not looking at it for a year or so...
Good News: There's lots of material already written for Book 2 (aka "The Secret Circle")
Bad (ish) News: It needs a major rewrite.
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Funny when you come back to something after not looking at it for a year or so...
Good News: There's lots of material already written for Book 2 (aka "The Secret Circle")
Bad (ish) News: It needs a major rewrite.
I have noticed that when I rewrite my own work it shrinks. I could rewrite a 5.000 word essay and end up with only 4,500 words left which could be a bit of bummer if a deadline was looming.
Also rewriting make talent evaporate. When I write things the first time it always contains brilliant ideas but when I look at it again and have to rewrite it, it doesn't seem so good and the hilarious jokes are not a funny.
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Editing away on book 2 (The Secret Circle). ;D This is possible cover art.
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Wouldn't want to fall on that thing.
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Knowing my luck I would be fighting to defend it, fumble and put a dirty great scratch right across it. You can just imagine the disapproving look from the assembed high priests...
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Hah! Well, that is a Navigator Obelisk, so I doubt you could scratch it even if you wanted to...
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I always imagined them to be black. Maybe my GM was a bit too 2001 influenced, or I wasn't paying attention.
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I always imagined them to be black. Maybe my GM was a bit too 2001 influenced, or I wasn't paying attention.
I'd always thought of them as black as well, so I looked for a description. From Eidolon (the old edition):
"featureless black, triangular pillar twenty feet tall. Formed of some shiny adamantine material"
So, black and shiny. Maybe depends on how the light hits it.
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Yeah, my GM had black shiny ones.
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Editing away on book 2 (The Secret Circle). ;D This is possible cover art.
I cannot possibly express with words just how pleased I am that this is moving forward.
Thank you so very much Mr. Amthor for sticking with it.
Thanks again,
--Desty
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I always imagined them to be black. Maybe my GM was a bit too 2001 influenced, or I wasn't paying attention.
They are black, or they appear to be black, but they are very reflective....
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Yeah, it is black but I made it very reflective - but the height is wrong - it was my first Obelisk attempt. :(
Since then though I have given them the correct height and given them a dark purple hue (as when the black obelisk is lit, it looks kind-of grey).
You can hopefully recognise the Guild these 2 Navigators belong to as well. :D
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/0171-Summons-20-NEW.jpg)
(http://www.craigssketchpad.co.uk/wordpress/share/004-Obelisck-Sel-Kai-1000.jpeg)
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Thanks for the pics, Craig! Of course, Obelisks might also vary somewhat...
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On the general topic of the book. Those of you who have read the first one, constructive criticism towards improving the second book is more than welcome. I'm the first to admit that I am not that experienced with long narratives, and this sprang out of the online Journals of Kalen. I have been advised to 'show, not tell,' though something more specific might help. Maybe I am explaining too much?
Feel free to PM me.
Thanks!
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Been reading this for the first time. Overall I like it so far, and it is giving me a pretty good feel for SW as a setting in ways the sourcebooks don't. The sourcebooks are more of a birdseye view, and this is more personal.
I do have one criticism, but its related to the formatting as opposed to the content.
There really should be some kind of break when the text transitions to a different group of people in a different part of the world. There have been several spots where I go from one sentence to the next, and I read the next sentence expecting it to be Kalen and Jad, but we've abruptly switched to the head of Gryphon College. Another example is going from Kalen meeting Vscount Ridgestone on deck to Randae in his office without even a carriage return in between them. It's a bit jarring. This is all on the kindle edition, and don't have the print to compare to.
For the good stuff I do like the characters, and in general I've always liked the little short stories that prefaced chapters in your source-books. I guess you can say I've always liked your style of writing, and the stories you want to tell. It's nice to see it working in a longer narrative. I wasn't quite sure what to expect in a jump from game source-books to a novel, but at the same time I am not surprised that I am enjoying it. It's not like the jump itself is unprecedented; after-all you have Weiss, Hickman, and Ed Greenwood as prior examples. It's just I think there is no guarantee a writer can make the leap from one to another with certainty, and you've done a good job of it so far.
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Hungrily anticipating the next book as the first kept me wanting more of what to expect next....
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Been reading this for the first time. Overall I like it so far, and it is giving me a pretty good feel for SW as a setting in ways the sourcebooks don't. The sourcebooks are more of a birdseye view, and this is more personal.
I do have one criticism, but its related to the formatting as opposed to the content.
There really should be some kind of break when the text transitions to a different group of people in a different part of the world. There have been several spots where I go from one sentence to the next, and I read the next sentence expecting it to be Kalen and Jad, but we've abruptly switched to the head of Gryphon College. Another example is going from Kalen meeting Vscount Ridgestone on deck to Randae in his office without even a carriage return in between them. It's a bit jarring. This is all on the kindle edition, and don't have the print to compare to.
For the good stuff I do like the characters, and in general I've always liked the little short stories that prefaced chapters in your source-books. I guess you can say I've always liked your style of writing, and the stories you want to tell. It's nice to see it working in a longer narrative. I wasn't quite sure what to expect in a jump from game source-books to a novel, but at the same time I am not surprised that I am enjoying it. It's not like the jump itself is unprecedented; after-all you have Weiss, Hickman, and Ed Greenwood as prior examples. It's just I think there is no guarantee a writer can make the leap from one to another with certainty, and you've done a good job of it so far.
Glad you are enjoying it. Are you reading an electronic version? Because I thought I was pretty careful to always at least do a double carriage return (so there is a blank space) when I changed scenes. I'm wondering if something happened when it was converted.
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As an aside, I once had a drink with Terry Pratchett at a pub in Wellington and he was a very strange man.
I know I've come very late to this discussion, but... you can't drop a bomb like that on us an not give us at least a few more details!
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Glad you are enjoying it. Are you reading an electronic version? Because I thought I was pretty careful to always at least do a double carriage return (so there is a blank space) when I changed scenes. I'm wondering if something happened when it was converted.
Kindle on iOS 11, but not the latest patch. Kindle app itself is up to date. Book was through the Kindle store. I'll look around in the app to see if there is a setting that is causing this. I've never messed with it, but if you put the double CR in then something has to be eating them.
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Glad you are enjoying it. Are you reading an electronic version? Because I thought I was pretty careful to always at least do a double carriage return (so there is a blank space) when I changed scenes. I'm wondering if something happened when it was converted.
Kindle on iOS 11, but not the latest patch. Kindle app itself is up to date. Book was through the Kindle store. I'll look around in the app to see if there is a setting that is causing this. I've never messed with it, but if you put the double CR in then something has to be eating them.
Ah, well, when LL was published a few years ago the epub export tools were pretty crude, especially from InDesign on the Mac, so I guess there were some glitches. Not as seamless as a PDF.
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I did mess around with the settings a bit, and I didn't find anything in the app that might be causing it.
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I did mess around with the settings a bit, and I didn't find anything in the app that might be causing it.
It may have been flaws in the export process that you cannot fix, unfortunately. As I said, exporting from InDesign to the online formats other than PDF were still buggy back then.
But again, glad you are enjoying it otherwise. Unfortunately the sequels are on a back-burner (but not dead) at present.
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But again, glad you are enjoying it otherwise. Unfortunately the sequels are on a back-burner (but not dead) at present.
Well I've read through it twice now so um... yeah.
Totally understand about the sequels though. We're all anxiously awaiting the new / renewed Emer & Jaiman books, and then it sounds like maybe it's Thuul next. No pressure though. :D
To be honest as much as I want more of the story I feel some trepidation over the fate of various characters both good and bad. Shadow World wouldn't be quite the same as a game setting without Andraax or Vorig and even Ondoval. I can get though that as someone whose told stories as a way of living for something like 40 years, you've probably got things inside you need to get out.
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I do have much of the second book written (some of it from old online snippets), but I have a few game books I really need to get out. We are way behind schedule.
And as far as characters. You know in most TV series (e.g. Stargate SG-1) the main characters are in peril, but you know they will always get out of it somehow. This is not 'Game of Thrones.' In fact I was just watching the end of a SG-1 2-parter, where suddenly 3 Asgard ships show up and warn off Osiris (which flees), and Jack says "Oh, so that's it?" Like he was expecting some climactic battle.
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And as far as characters. You know in most TV series (e.g. Stargate SG-1) the main characters are in peril, but you know they will always get out of it somehow. This is not 'Game of Thrones.' In fact I was just watching the end of a SG-1 2-parter, where suddenly 3 Asgard ships show up and warn off Osiris (which flees), and Jack says "Oh, so that's it?" Like he was expecting some climactic battle.
Apophis's perennial rebound from death comes to mind. Peter William's made an appearance in the black comedy series Dead Like Me as a love interest for Cynthia Stevenson's character. Totally night and day different role, but it was a lot of fun seeing him in a role other than 'evil alien parasite with delusions of grandeur.'
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I'm re-reading the first book (it has been awhile) then going into what I have for the second book. I already have 3/4 of the text of the first book written in the second, so mostly need to clean it up and add some more. Also need some more action and less background...
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Background, if it's to do with the background for specific characters and places that isn't really needed for the main story but would add depth, would probably work for a short story collection.
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I think this really works, following many separate characters, if you want to reveal the impact of a large scale catastrophe to all denizens in their various walks of life.
A great example of this was in Peter F Hamilton's book, The Reality Dysfunction... He spends the first 100 or so pages leaping from one character to the next in an intergalactic setting. He then was able to vividly share the impact to their lives and personal story of one intergalactic catastrophe.
Ps: it did make for tough reading at the start, as you wondered where on earth the author was going to go with all these various disconnected life stories...
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I'll be honest, sales were a bit disappointing for the novel. It did reach Silver on DrivethruFiction https://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?term=amthor&test_epoch=0 (https://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?term=amthor&test_epoch=0) but that is not huge numbers.
But since I am doing this completely independently from ICE, I am thinking that maybe I should do a kickstarter or gofundme for the next book(s) to see how much real interest there is (and if there is, to inspire me to get moving on the sequel(s). Either that or some some definite commitments here that you'll purchase online or a book (I am also curious about what format you want; the tablet tech has come a long way in a few years...)
Or maybe I should ask ICE if they want to take this under their wing... and include some character stats?
What do you think?
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Kickstarter is fun and can help, but if you want it to be successful it needs to be driven by some kind of publicity, e.g. social media, and preferably drawing from multiple interest groups. This board is one source but the readership here isn't that big. It would be better if you have somewhere else to draw from as well.
Character stats could be an easy stretch goal. You might also be able to make or commission character art as a stretch goal, which could serve a double purpose as cover art etc for Shadow World products in the future. Signed bookplates aren't too bad either, I would do that as an add-on or premium rather than a free stretch goal.
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I just ran the reports for the original book, and it was not as bad as I thought. I need to think about it. Maybe I should get onto the second book...
How many people want the digital format other than PDF?
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PDF is probably the most universal of formats. Though, I do like epub (as my perferred reader Freada reads epub or PDF. With most publishing software now-a-days you can export to multiple formats. I know with Word Perfect (my preferred Word Processor/Desktop Publisher) it will export to epub or PDF.
But PDF is definately the most universal.
Nightblade ->--
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I just ran the reports for the original book, and it was not as bad as I thought. I need to think about it. Maybe I should get onto the second book...
How many people want the digital format other than PDF?
I would prefer kindle over pdf.
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Epub or mobi would be my preference
James
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Epub or mobi would be my preference
James
I just remember having a difficult time getting it into the other digital formats besides PDF, and a couple people told me that there was some missing text.
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I bought the first book on Amazon and the kindle version seemed perfect to me.
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I bought the first book on Amazon and the kindle version seemed perfect to me.
Well that's good to know! I exported it from Adobe InDesign, which had specific options for the formats. I wasn't going to try messing with MS Word, which I just use to compose text. Next week I'll have another look at the text and see how far along it is. I know it has been a long wait. I have so many SW irons in the fire...
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Kindle for me - Calibre is able to convert multiple formats with ease and has presets for most common formats.
Kevin.
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I do my fiction reading in epub, I don't recall having any issues with the first book.
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I am glad to hear that none of you had issues with the epub formats. Did anyone here buy the hardcopy? I happen to have bout a few copies intending to bring to Gencon but my health did not allow it. I'd be happy to sign and sell for a modest fee (as in the list price plus shipping).
Meanwhile, I will revisit my MS for the second book, and see how far along it is.
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I don't buy hard copy books anymore.
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I still prefer hardcopies. For one thing, I find them easier to read, for another I feel that ebooks by "big name" authors price themselves out of the market. Such as paperback £8, Kindle £7, second hand or remaindered book, under £3. Guess which one I prefer.
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I am glad to hear that none of you had issues with the epub formats. Did anyone here buy the hardcopy? I happen to have bout a few copies intending to bring to Gencon but my health did not allow it. I'd be happy to sign and sell for a modest fee (as in the list price plus shipping).
Meanwhile, I will revisit my MS for the second book, and see how far along it is.
I bought the hard copy, it is still my preferred method of reading a good book.
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I have a hardcopy, as well, though lately I have been doing more reading on my kindle. I still prefer hardcopies, especially for game books, but I am OK with electronic copies now too.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I do like my large size trade paperback. Anyone want a copy?
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Hard Copy is the way to go for me.
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I prefer epub format, but pdf would be o.k., Calibre would do the rest.
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Definitely epub, and I don't recall any issues with the first book either.
Regards,
- David.
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Okay, I have opened the ancient Word file and I am officially back to work on the second installment. And actually I think that exporting to other formats is easier now. I will update.
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Awesome!
Nightblade ->--
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Okay, I have opened the ancient Word file and I am officially back to work on the second installment. And actually I think that exporting to other formats is easier now. I will update.
Thank you for picking this up again.
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Got the first part for Christmas and am enjoying it, would definitely like to see part 2.
James
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Hello! In terms of roleplaying, which is exactly the artifact that Kalen finds?
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It's the Phoenix Pendant. It's detailed in Jaiman Land of Twilight under Artifacts of Tethior.
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I dont find the item description in Jaiman. I have the first edition.
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I dont find the item description in Jaiman. I have the first edition.
Page 84 Works of Tethior.
Pendants specifically start on 86, but I would read the entire section as well as the Forge of Arion, and the History section to get a feel for what place these artifacts have.
I highly recommend the new books too. Jaiman 2nd edition is an enormous update.
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Thank you very much
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I dont find the item description in Jaiman. I have the first edition.
Page 84 Works of Tethior.
Pendants specifically start on 86, but I would read the entire section as well as the Forge of Arion, and the History section to get a feel for what place these artifacts have.
I highly recommend the new books too. Jaiman 2nd edition is an enormous update.
Thanks, Jenkyna! :)
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This is great news! :D
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I dont find the item description in Jaiman. I have the first edition.
Page 84 Works of Tethior.
Pendants specifically start on 86, but I would read the entire section as well as the Forge of Arion, and the History section to get a feel for what place these artifacts have.
I highly recommend the new books too. Jaiman 2nd edition is an enormous update.
What exactly are the updates?
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The original Jaiman was 96 pages long, and the new one is 192. There are also several new books that zoom in on Jaiman, like Xaar which details a specific region in the northwest, and the Green Gryphon Inn in which details a single settlement in Jaiman. An updated Haalkitaine is almost ready too. There is another region book in the works that will detail the northeastern part of Jaiman, and add a lot of new info on the Taranians along with the sub-shuttle system.
The original Eidolon was 158 pages and the new one is 265 pages.
Cloudlords was 50 pages, and the new one is 115.
The original 96 page Emer from the box set has been turned into 4 books, with Emer III being 202 pages in length. An update of Emer I & II are in the works, and Emer IV is on it's way as well. That will will probably be 800 or so pages of material just on Emer the continent.
Sorry I realize I am focusing on page counts here, and that's not really what you asked, but the question probably needs to be "what wasn't updated or expanded on?" I think the maps from the old books didn't all get updates, but that's actually kind of nice because if memory serves me some of them are Pete Fenlon maps.
In my opinion the main selling point of all the new material is how it is all woven together into a cohesive whole. The original books were created by various authors who wrote about a particular location, but there was very little to tie those locations into a bigger picture. The new material seems to be written with a master design in mind, or at least that is the impression I get. You have the encompassing master atlas timeline, each region book has it's own timeline that calls out stuff specific to the region, and events in one book are sometimes tied to and influencing events in other books. A good example of this is the Lankan Empire, the Dragonlords, the Alliance, and the Jerak Ahrenreth are all trying to influence things in Eidolon and vie with each other at the same time. All of those groups are detailed in works outside of Eidolon, but got woven into the book in ways a GM can use to create tension, intrigue, and open the door for players to travel to regions in other books.
Some of the original books aren't regarded as canon by Terry, and at least one of them Curse of Kabis substantially departs from canon. Curse has a well thought out adventure in it, but honestly it's almost like it's not set in ShadowWorld.
I think most folks around here like the original books, I've always liked Demon's of the Burning Night & Nomads of the Nine Nations, but the new books really shine because they are more like parts of a whole rather than a lot of little independent islands of information.
What the new books do not do do is give you so many specifics that there is no place to insert your own creative elements to make the setting something unique to your game table. That's a key element in setting design in my opinion. You give the GM enough information so that they know the setting and are inspired to create games in it, but not so much that it stifles their creativity by answering all the questions and filling in all the blanks.
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One other thing I did think of is that there are some things that aren't in the new books, at least not yet. Some of the stuff, like the artifacts, from the original box set Master Atlas & its addendums hasn't been included in the newer books. There has been talk of an "Artifacts" book, but I don't think it's officially confirmed. For example if you needed to look up the Guardian Mind you would have to look at the older books.
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Thank you for the answer, but I mean what are the updates in Jaiman book.
I'm planning to play the Great Campaign and I was looking for connections with Loremaster Legacy and Jaiman's book, to see if there is common material that can be used.
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Thank you for the answer, but I mean what are the updates in Jaiman book.
I'm planning to play the Great Campaign and I was looking for connections with Loremaster Legacy and Jaiman's book, to see if there is common material that can be used.
I'll see if I can come up with something of a comparison between the two editions, and I can review the Grand Campaign material to see if anything jumps out at me.
Do you have any of the newer books or is it all 1st edition ShadowWorld?
I do think to do the Grand Campaign you would need multiple books. For example I am pretty sure the new Haalkitaine Terry is working on is supposed to have the sewer & catacomb maps. The new Tanara is present day with regards to the Grand Campaign, and the old one was set thousands of years ago.
With that said, this is just my own opinion. If you prefer the old books then use those, and don't worry about the new stuff. It's not like we didn't have fun games back in the day when the old books were all that existed.
I've been working on my own Grand Campaign concept, but it's more focused on Emer and will start in the Bay of Izar. It does take some of the concepts from the original Grand Campaign. I totally think it's cool you want to run that. It was a great adventure concept.
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I have only 1st edition of all shadow world books, plus Loremaster Legacy, that I have bought now.
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Since there are some limits to what I can post given that Jaiman is ICE's IP, I am going to sum this up by giving a section comparison between the old and the new.
The Races section has been expanded and a number of new races are listed.
The History section is a good deal longer, and the third era timeline has been expanded considerably.
The Overview of Jaiman section in the original has 15 sections, and new one has added a number of new region descriptions for a total of 21 sections.
There is an addition to the maps section for the Watchtowers of U-Lyshak. A number of the area maps are now in color.
In reading over the Grand Campaign a lot has changed since it was written. Many of the characters / groups have been fleshed out in the Master Altas IV, and Powers of Light and Darkness. A number of them have very different roles from the ones described in the Grand Campaign. Some of the biggest changes are to Schrek, and his goals / weaknesses. There is a lot more about him in Emer III too, because that is where his home is. The grand campaign speaks of 5 Dragonlords, but the newer material has 6 of them. Nothing in the new material suggests Ulya Shek or Jenkyna are priestesses of the Steel Rain, nor are they or the dragonlords servants of the unlife.
I think what is in the Grand Campaign is pretty much compatible with all the 1e Shadow World material except parts of Tanara. but it's not as compatible with the 2e material. The biggest problem is the characters & organizations changed and those characters were then written into the major historical elements. If all you plan to do is 1e then this isn't really an issue, but if you planned to get future 2e books that describe new areas you would probably have to make a lot of changes.
I'm not going to say you should get new stuff just because it's new, because that would be daft. I just think you will find a lot more information about shadowworld in the newer sourcebooks.
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Thank you very much!