Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => HARP SF => Topic started by: DangerMaus on July 11, 2011, 03:00:30 PM
-
Hello, new to these boards. I have been looking over HARP (Don't have HARP SF yet) because I am looking for a system to run a shadowrun type of game (near future with cyberware and magic). I haven't had a chance to get my hands on HARP SF yet and I wanted to ask if it is strickly far future or if it has content for cyberware and other advancements but still close to our modern day world?
I imagine I would have to combine HARP with HARP SF to get what I am looking for but let me know your thoughts.
-dm
-
IMO you could run such a game in HARP SF, but some of what I think you'd need, like cyberware was bumped to the HARP SF Extreme book, which is in it's countdown to release, which you can find over here:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=10998.0
-
For modern or near-future settings, you would need to prune the equipment list and stuff like that.
As Marc notes, HARP SF Xtreme has the cyberware, and it is hurtling towards release.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
Is there a beta (or light version) of either HARP SF or the
HARP SF Xtreme that are available? I would like to get a better sense of what they have.
-dm
-
Is there a beta (or light version) of either HARP SF or the
HARP SF Xtreme that are available? I would like to get a better sense of what they have.
-dm
There isn't a Lite version. However, the first ten pages of HARP SF (which includes the contents pages) are visible in the RPGNow pdf preview.
Also if you look back in the threads in this part of the forum, you'll see lots of discussion about the beta and gamma editions of HARP SF / SF Xtreme.
What specifically are you trying to find out?
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
I am just trying to find the best game system to run my game. I personally am I fan of rolemaster and I like what I have seen of HARP (I haven't actually played it yet). I want to run my shadowrun themed game but I and my players don't like how slow the mechanics are for combat with the actual Shadowrun rules. I looked at using the D20 modern system but found that I would have to cobble various sources together to make the game I wanted that it was a lot of work for me just to get it all put together. While I am a fan of the rolemaster style mechanics my players were not. I am hoping that HARP will be streamlined enough for them so that I can actually play it. :)
So not sure if I have answered your question yet. I just wanted to get a better sense of the mechanics used in HARP SF and SF Xtreme to see if they will work for me and how much merging I might have to do with HARP and HARP SF and\or HARP SF Xtreme.
-dm
-
HARP SF is fully compatible with HARP Fantasy, so if you like how HARP does things, then you should be fine with HARP SF.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
Thanks Nicholas.
I'm sure you get asked this a bit but when do you think the HARP SF Xtreme will be mase available?
-dm
-
I hope very soon. Joel and Craig are finishing off the last few deckplan reconstructions, then it's integrate the covers and hand over to myself and Aurigas for final check / approval.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
Thanks. So it sounds like the SF Xtreme is an add-on\extensions of HARP SF and not a complete rule book that stands by itself, correct?
From what I can gather you would pick up both books and then select which technologies\features you wanted to include in your game and ignore the rest. For example, I could select modern weapons (firearms etc.), cybertechology, and modern vehicles (cars etc.) but ignore lasers, spaceships, and psonics (unless I wanted to use this instead of the magic system from HARP).
Are my assumptions correct?
-dm
-
yes
-
The systems are all modular, and there's nothing there to force using any of the elements you don't need.
-
Thanks. So it sounds like the SF Xtreme is an add-on\extensions of HARP SF and not a complete rule book that stands by itself, correct?
From what I can gather you would pick up both books and then select which technologies\features you wanted to include in your game and ignore the rest. For example, I could select modern weapons (firearms etc.), cybertechology, and modern vehicles (cars etc.) but ignore lasers, spaceships, and psonics (unless I wanted to use this instead of the magic system from HARP).
Are my assumptions correct?
It actually goes a bit further than that. HARP SF divides various types of technologies into 6 stages of development: Unavailable, Prototype, Early, Mature, Advanced and Obsolescent. To at least some extent, you can tweak not only what's available, but its weight, bulk, expense, power needs and performance specs according to where it falls along that development path.
For example you could decide that the hand held combat capable maser is invented during your campaign. But being still in prototype it's bulky, hideously expensive, temperamental, sucks power like mad and there are only a few (possibly one) world wide. It likely wouldn't figure directly into game combats, other than as possibly the cause of some, as prototypes get stolen for espionage purposes. It could probably be a really nasty item... but only in the hands of the inventor, because it's a kludged together piece of crap that in all the world only he's competent to run yet.
But on the other hand, 5 years later they might be the equivalent of the old "brick" cell phones, and if you're willing to pay for it you can get one. 20 years after that there's half a dozen for sale in every sporting goods store.
-
Good point.
-
Having the technologies broken into different stages of development sound like it will make excluding some easier. Nice.
Has anyone combined HARP and HARP SF? Just wondering how much tweaking HARP professions require to give them updated skills, or if that is even necessary.
-dm
-
Has anyone combined HARP and HARP SF? Just wondering how much tweaking HARP professions require to give them updated skills, or if that is even necessary.
I've been attempting that here.
http://www.realroleplaying.com/rmsmf/index.php?board=327.0
The only problem I'm finding in the systems as written is HARP having 9 skill categories, including Mystical Arts, and HARP SF having 12 skill categories, including Scientific, Technical and Vehicular, and those 4 categories not being present in the other system. It makes things a bit odd because HARP SF has the same system using the same number of DPs, to spread among about 20% more skills in 25% more categories. That and talents that mesh well in one type of setting may not mesh well in the other.
There are more issues than that for me, but the rest of them are mainly because of my own particular wants as GM and world builder.
-
The only problem I'm finding in the systems as written is HARP having 9 skill categories, including Mystical Arts, and HARP SF having 12 skill categories, including Scientific, Technical and Vehicular, and those 4 categories not being present in the other system. It makes things a bit odd because HARP SF has the same system using the same number of DPs, to spread among about 20% more skills in 25% more categories. That and talents that mesh well in one type of setting may not mesh well in the other.
Of course, that could be why we tend to specialize in higher tech societies: there are just too many things to learn. A farmer in the middle ages had a whole lot more carpentry skills than I do, and I have access to Home Depot, Lowes, HGTV, & DIY Network!
But, for game-balance issues, I see the problem.
-
The talent issue exists in any world and with any system. The GM needs to decide what works in their world and what doesn't.
The 12 categories vs 9 was considered. The difference is that in HARP SF the standard DP gain rule is 50 DP per level. The HARP standard rule has been DP based upon stats, but the commonly used optional rule has been 40 DP per level. 25% additional DP for 25% additional skills.
-
That being general literacy, general education, access to vast libraries of books (to a fantasy standard), the internet, and of course Home Depot, Lowes, HGTV and DIY network at play.
;D
-
The talent issue exists in any world and with any system. The GM needs to decide what works in their world and what doesn't.
True.
The 12 categories vs 9 was considered. The difference is that in HARP SF the standard DP gain rule is 50 DP per level. The HARP standard rule has been DP based upon stats, but the commonly used optional rule has been 40 DP per level. 25% additional DP for 25% additional skills.
That being general literacy, general education, access to vast libraries of books (to a fantasy standard), the internet, and of course Home Depot, Lowes, HGTV and DIY network at play.
;D
And sure, that's valid and all... but if your society goes from high tech to post apocalyptic to low tech magic using, you still have issues you have to work through. It is what it is. That's not so much a complaint as just accepting that as part of the territory.
-
Makes sense, for PA I might fiddle with the average DP per level a bit, people at generally low tech-education levels trending back toward 40 DP, with those with generally higher tech-education levels up toward 50. (of course in a thundar the barbarian or other such kitchen sink game, you might have highly educated magical societies and low education tech based societies). . .falls into the gray area between world building and GM judgement call IMO.
-
Having the technologies broken into different stages of development sound like it will make excluding some easier. Nice.
Has anyone combined HARP and HARP SF? Just wondering how much tweaking HARP professions require to give them updated skills, or if that is even necessary.
-dm
For what I think you are trying to do, use the HARP SF professions for non-magical types and make Mystical a non-favored category. For the magic-using types, either:
1) Modify the Adept profession swapping out Concentration for Mystical as a favoured category and putting in the professional abilities of the Magician, Cleric, etc in place of the Adept's abilities
2) Use the HARP fantasy professions as written but the Scientific, Technical and Vehicular categories are non-favoured for these professions.
The assumption here I'm making is that this is a Shadowrun-style setting where magic and science coexist.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
I've been working on a blend of the two that, in addition to just being a blend of the two, is "professionless", in other words the player chooses the spread of favored/non-favored categories rather than having them dictated by choice of profession. I have been seriously considering leaving all 13 categories on the same character sheet, and having the "default" spread be 5 favored (cost 2 DPs), 5 non-favored (cost 4 DPs), 3 restricted (cost either 6 or 8 DPs, I haven't decided which). That way I can have the players aboard the space station when the catastrophe occurs, the players in the post-apocalyptic scenario a few years later, and the "wizards" thousands of years later still, all using the same game mechanics. Then again, this setting also assumes that "psionics" bears roughly the same relationship to "magic" that chainsaw sculpture bears to bonsai, so "mystical arts" is every bit as much a group of intense specializations as, say, engineering. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to say that with categories requiring as intense a focus as Combat, Scientific and Mystical Arts, if you focus on anything enough to be competent, there's going to be something else you seriously suck at.
The forum I linked to above is one I check often (of course), so feel free to check in now and then and see if/how it's working. I'm not too proud to admit when an idea explodes in my face, especially if it means the person I admit it to may have a better idea to make it non-explosive.
;)
-
Thanks guys.
Nicholas suggestion sounds like the least amount of work on my part which I like. :)
MY current plan is to run a straight HARP one shot adventure to introduce the players to the system and see how it goes before I invest in the SF books. I already have an idea that involves setting it way in the past so that it fits with the timeline and it will tie in (or at least hint at) with the adventure I want to run in the modern setting.
Now we will see if I can do my vision justice when I run the game.
PS - Are there any helpful tools for GMing a HARP game? I haven't run one before.
-dm
-
Tool like screens and tables, or tools like computer widgets?
-
Either. Whatever you guys find helpful. I want to be able to handle most needs and avoid alot of looking up time. Also, anything you use to help with combat etc. would be appreciated.
-dm
-
I'd check the Vault out:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=0
The HARP Software sub board:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=20.0
And it'd likely be a good idea to re-post your question in the general HARP board, as you'll likely draw more eyes to a topic like "Any game aids or suggestions for a new HARP GM?" than you will here:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=3.0