Author Topic: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount  (Read 11054 times)

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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2012, 01:56:26 PM »
Wonderful news HARP2 is available. I'll snag my copy sometime today. Thanks for this guys!

One question: are you guys open to producing a conversion guide from HARP to HARP2? Other companies have provided a bridge product, such as what WotC did when they transition from 3 to 3.5 and this allows us to manually make corrections and whatnot in our HARP books so they're still useful at the table.

Thoughts?

>>ReaperWolf

One of the reasons for giving everyone a chance to buy the pdf at a 75% discount, so at least folk can replace their pdfs easily. There's a checklist in the new introduction indicating where the changes are in the book, but we had to adjust a lot of spells in order to get them to conform to our adjusted spell creation system, so that bit is genuinely pervasive.

No objection to anyone making a detailed list, but not sure that we'll get a chance to make that list anytime soon. I'm certainly not going to get a chance to do it. We've got lots more HARP and RM products demanding our attention as they jockey for publication release (which means that they all end up converging on my desk)

Best wishes,
Nicholas
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Offline ob1knorrb

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2012, 02:00:56 PM »
I've been known to create lists/articles like that for the Guild Companion from time to time :)  No promises though, I've got several competing projects that I'm looking at and haven't yet decided which one is going to get my attention.
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Offline kreider204

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2012, 02:19:56 PM »
Yes, you can point typos though do it quickly - they are being collected on http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=11970.0. Craig is winding up his InDesign to do a glitch purge, though.
Best wishes,
Nicholas

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Offline ReaperWolf

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2012, 12:51:17 PM »
I snagged mine last night, looks great and really looking forward to running it at Winter War 2013 in January.

I guess my only gripe right off the bat is the weapons sizes are still off by my estimation. Having quarterstaves dealing the same damage potential as 2-h warhammers is nuts unless there's another advantage to wielding the warhammer such as armor penetration in the form of bonus OB vs. plate and chainmails. The simplified MERP style combat in one of the HARPERs Bazaars had various weapon attributes which I ported over to distinguish weapons. Maybe this could be incorporated into the new Martial Law.

Great work everyone on HARP2. The scenario for Winter War is set in Cyradon more than likely in Belynar but not sure yet. Eager to mix it up with HARP2.

Best!

>>ReaperWolf

Offline dutch206

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2012, 08:54:02 AM »
FYI--The new version of HARP Fantasy has been #1 on the RPG Now downloads list for about a week now.  Congrats!
 :wave:
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Offline Deepfire

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2012, 05:40:30 AM »
...
The pdf version is already available. Softcover and hardcover versions will become available as soon as OneBookShelf approves the print files.

...

Will the printed book have the same layout as the pdf? To be honest, I AM a bit disappointed of the very sparse layout and of some of the illustrations. I don't think that I will buy it in this form, though I have every RM/RM2/RMC/RMSS/RMFRP/MERP/Cyberspace/Spacemaster/Spacemaster Privateer/ and of course HARP Book in print in my collection. This is 2012 and I expect the presentation of a printed book to reach higher standards than in the 80s or 90s.

Sorry, no offense meant.
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Offline craggles

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2012, 06:45:16 AM »
Quote
...To be honest, I AM a bit disappointed of the very sparse layout...

I definitely prefer a more 'ornate' layout myself like the Shadow World Atlas 4 and even when it's more subtle like the the original HARP Fantasy book but that has the unfortunate side-effect of increasing page count - perhaps this was the deciding factor for the book?
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Offline Deepfire

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2012, 07:34:10 AM »
A good layout is not only nice to look at, it also helps sorting and searching through complex texts, gives anchorpoints (sorry, english is not my main language, if one or the other word does not make sense, please fill with one of your own :-) ) for the direction your eyes wander over the pages and helps the reader to locate himself in the diverse layers of complex texts like an rpg.

For instance: the layout of RMFRP is not one of my favourites, but it helps extremely while "learning" the rules. The german RMFRP - which has a nicer-to-look-at layout - lacks this help due to indifferent definition of the headline structure (there is a definition, it is just not really recognizable while reading).

Imo, a complex game like HARP or RM should always try to be as understandable/learnable as possible - and a structured and good looking layout helps enormously - even if it has some more pages then.
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Offline craggles

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2012, 07:51:19 AM »
Quote
For instance: the layout of RMFRP is not one of my favourites, but it helps extremely while "learning" the rules. The german RMFRP - which has a nicer-to-look-at layout - lacks this help due to indifferent definition of the headline structure (there is a definition, it is just not really recognizable while reading).

We can wait for the corrected HARP layout to see how that turns out - hopefully some of that will be fixed.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2012, 12:46:50 PM »
...
The pdf version is already available. Softcover and hardcover versions will become available as soon as OneBookShelf approves the print files.

...

Will the printed book have the same layout as the pdf? To be honest, I AM a bit disappointed of the very sparse layout and of some of the illustrations. I don't think that I will buy it in this form, though I have every RM/RM2/RMC/RMSS/RMFRP/MERP/Cyberspace/Spacemaster/Spacemaster Privateer/ and of course HARP Book in print in my collection. This is 2012 and I expect the presentation of a printed book to reach higher standards than in the 80s or 90s.

Sorry, no offense meant.

The pdf version is in the process of having various corrections made to the layout. Once that is completed, it will be the corrected version that goes to print-on-demand.

As for the artwork, this is a matter of personal opinion - it's all in the eye of the beholder. What we have done is replace the endless recycling of filler pieces (i think the original HARP used the same 3 or 4 fillers over twenty times) and of other pieces, so you do have something new and frequently germane to nearby text to look at.

As for ornateness and borders and all that jazz, some of those simply don't work with OBS/Lightning Source printing constraints so they are a non-starter and they can seriously bloat page count. Consider RM Classic books and their RM2 originals. Push page count unnecessarily high and print-on-demand prices / normal print runs can hit tipping points for fans and us. So we're going for a leaner look rather than too much stuff in the layout.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Dr Nicholas HM Caldwell
Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme

Offline jeddak

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2012, 02:28:19 PM »
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I prefer a sparse and less "decorated" appearance to a book. The less artwork, the better - it helps me to focus more on the rules and the world I'm envisioning in my mind.

And, while I'm at it, on a related note, I feel there are too many different typefaces in play in the current edition of HARP. The layout would have a much less 'busy' appearance if there were just two typefaces used.

As I count it, there are at least six distinct type faces in the current HARP design:

1. there's the sort of celtic 'uncial' style used for the title
2. there's the Optima-esque face used in the TOC
3. there's the standard serif face used in body text
4. another decorative title style used for subheads
5. another distinct decorative style, used for examples
6. yet another (!) decorative title style used in the footer

These should be condensed down to two overall families, in my opinion.

Whatever face is used for the body can be used for subheads and examples (just bold/enlarge, and italicize, respectively). Footer material should be in the same typeface as the body text. Pick one decorative title style, and use it sparingly. The result is a more readable, timeless style that enhances rather than detracts from the reading experience.

I'm sure that to many, this is nitpicking. It's just my opinion as a typographical purist who prefers a classic, understated approach to book design.

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Offline ironmaul

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2012, 04:10:49 PM »
Funny you should mention this jeddak, I'm studying this exact same thing for my typography assignment, and what you say is correct by my textbooks. Apparently the old style family is best for extensive amounts of body copy, such as Goudy, Palatino, Times, Baskerville and Garamond etc.

Can't say I agree with you on the less artwork though  ;) ;D

Offline Zut

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2012, 10:16:52 PM »
I agree with jeddak too. I think there are a little bit too many typefaces. I prefer the simpler looking ones as they are easier to read. I also liked the original layout with parts of text in an enclosing frame (even though Nicholas gave the reason why it was changed).  :)
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Offline jdale

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2012, 11:03:34 AM »
You can't please everyone with layout. I wouldn't have used Papyrus for the example text, but it's hardly a dealbreaker.

That said, I don't think all caps is a good choice for the TOC. It's harder to scan than mixed case, and stylistically it doesn't seem to go with the rest of the book. I would use the same font and style as the index, which is perfectly readable.

And more importantly for a PDF, I would really like to see links. I would prefer a sidebar type TOC with links to all the sections (not just links from clicking items on the TOC pages) because it's more versatile for navigating through the text (and also better supported by the Acrobat Reader on my tablet...).

Links from an index are less important, since a PDF has a search function not available in a printed book.
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Offline craggles

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2012, 11:52:15 AM »
I'm redoing the layout for the HARP Fantasy core book and a lot of these issues are going to be cleared up.

The designer will then use my templates to work on the rest of the HARP Fantasy books so hopefully this won't happen again.

The ToC will be more readable and have links and so will future books by the way.

(Papyrus wouldn't have been my first choice either but that's staying in) ;)

So there's no need to comment on the layout until the updated PDF comes out.

But again, you can't please everyone. :)
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Offline Zut

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2012, 09:22:27 AM »
Wow! Thanks craggles. I'm sure it's a lot of work.
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Offline craggles

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2012, 11:53:13 AM »
Quote
Wow! Thanks craggles. I'm sure it's a lot of work.

It is - I'm on the Combat chapter - lots of tables :)
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Offline Frank von Tanelorn

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2012, 10:13:52 AM »
When is the print on demand likely to be ready?
Print-on-demand will probably take two to three weeks ...
Forgive me and my bugging request...  ;)

Do you have any new information or an estimated date of delivery?

Best wishes!

Frank

Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2012, 12:04:00 PM »
@jeddak, don't assume that your opinion is minority, it might not be. That said, I like pretty . . . until pretty distracts from readability, which is what I thought somewhat of original HARP's borders, and thought a certain edition of a different game went way overboard with the decoration.

Anyway, my other issues are discussed in the topic about formatting errors.
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Offline NicholasHMCaldwell

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Re: HARP Fantasy now available with time-limited discount
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2012, 04:29:42 PM »
When is the print on demand likely to be ready?
Print-on-demand will probably take two to three weeks ...
Forgive me and my bugging request...  ;)

Do you have any new information or an estimated date of delivery?

Best wishes!

Frank

I need Craig to finish the fixing up of the layout, I then hand him the small number of content changes, we shake vigorously and then we upload into OneBookShelf and we go through the checking process of physical copies.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
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Director, Iron Crown Enterprises Ltd
Publisher of Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Shadow World, Cyradon, HARP & HARP SF, and Cyberspace, with products available from www.drivethrurpg.com
Author: Mentalism Companion, GURPS Age of Napoleon, Construct Companion, College of Magics, HARP SF/HARP SF Xtreme