Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => HARP SF => Topic started by: Marchand on February 12, 2013, 09:02:59 AM
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Thanks for the Jan 2013 Director's Briefing. I get the sense there are some very capable people running the show at GCP/ICE.
My favourite GCP product is HARP-SF. I was a little concerned not to see this line referenced directly in the Briefing. Particularly as GCP/ICE seem to have their work cut out with other big projects including not least the new Rolemaster.
So my question is: what are the plans for the HARP-SF line? My wish-list would be GM support including books of NPCs, creatures, and adventures; and more ships. Any prospect?
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From the sidelines I can tell you that the current focus is on getting HARP Fantasy back out fully and the new Rolemaster playtest feedback updates.
There is one project for HARP-SF that I'll be involved in but it's still a long way's off and too soon to start open discussion on.
But why don't you tell us....
For HARP-SF what kind of books do you want to see?
Books of NPC's - A general rogues gallery type book, or more setting material or adventure with NPCs in it?
Creatures - Alien beasts or new species (for NPCs or PCs)?
Adventures - Lots of options here... what kind of adventures do you want to see?
Ships - Personal fighters? Cargo carriers? Troop transports? Galactic battlecruisers?
Give us some idea of what you'd like to see and we'll see what we can do.
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I would like to see a Guide to the default HARP-SciFi Universe and maybe some additional products that provide more depth to a particular area of interest.
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There is one project for HARP-SF that I'll be involved in but it's still a long way's off and too soon to start open discussion on.
But why don't you tell us....
For HARP-SF what kind of books do you want to see?
Books of NPC's - A general rogues gallery type book, or more setting material or adventure with NPCs in it?
Creatures - Alien beasts or new species (for NPCs or PCs)?
Adventures - Lots of options here... what kind of adventures do you want to see?
Ships - Personal fighters? Cargo carriers? Troop transports? Galactic battlecruisers?
Give us some idea of what you'd like to see and we'll see what we can do.
...yes, that about sums it up!
I mean GM aids that would cut down on game prep. I expect many of us are of an age where we have kids and jobs heavily curtailing our game time. I know I do. The sad fact is that this will always bias me to pick up another game with more off-the-shelf support available, like Traveller, even where that stuff is of variable quality.
A 1001 characters type book would be a great start - stat blocks for commonly encountered NPC types, done as generically as possible. I know we have AutoHARP coming up, which should speed things up in this area.
And if we're in daydream territory - then a Revelation Space sourcebook would be good!
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I will reply to this...without reading books yet.
But...usually what Space / Sci-fi games need.
Alien species
Technology (including alien technology, which might be weird, dangerous and so on)
Space ships...more...
Land vehicles
Detailed world book (with series of adventures)
Psionic spells :)
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Give us some idea of what you'd like to see and we'll see what we can do.
OK, no problem.
My order of preference:
Ships - Personal fighters? Cargo carriers? Troop transports? Galactic battlecruisers?
Yes, please! All of the above, in droves with variety - like for different species/cultures. With floorplans, if possible. (Talk to the guys at Future Armada, their stuff is excellent.)
Creatures - Alien beasts or new species (for NPCs or PCs)?
Grrrrrr....aarrrggggghhhh.
Adventures - Lots of options here... what kind of adventures do you want to see?
I imagine it is possilbe to make generic enough adventures, complete with NPCs, location maps, etc... that can be used in a variety of settings - especially because the Tintamar setting does not appeal to me all that much.
Books of NPC's - A general rogues gallery type book, or more setting material or adventure with NPCs in it?
Emphasis is mine.
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What I would like to see is in no particular order;
- A source book of the Tintamar universe so I can picture it in more detail. Obviously not everything as that would be a mountain of work but definitely a more detailed slice to help picture it, as an adventure module or perhaps as a campaign book to get to grips with it like the old Space Master modules etc.
- A record of a game session of players playing their characters. Call it for want of a better name "The Harp-SF logs'. Its purpose to show players and GMs. alike how the game plays and bring in new ideas on how to do thing and include commentary from the GM. and the players for perspective purposes on what was good, bad, funny or even just for the hell of it. The benefits are obvious as it promotes the game and helps GMs & players avoid pit falls and it promotes gaming groups.
- A conversion guide. Some tips on how to convert old characters from say Space Master to Harp-SF, which shouldn't be too tricky. But what if I wanted to convert a Role Master[any edition] one. What about from other game systems, like D20, from Traveller, Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr Who, Rogue Trader etc. Why do it because players have favourite characters in different games and if they convert them then they can continue playing them with this cool game system.
- Include magic as an option. So if we want we can add it.
That's all I can think of at present. :)
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Oh yeah, since I do not particularly care for the Tintamar setting, I would like to see a HARP Scifi conversion for the 2nd Edition Spacemaster setting.
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Watching this thread, I've been debating about talking with Nicholas about doing some writing for HARP SciFi (since some of the ideas that Tim Dugger took to Nicholas when the books were being written had originated with me in the first place based on discussions Tim and I had back when he was still writing and developing HARP). Of course it would have to wait until I completed the current RMU campaign module project.
It took a little bit to explain to Tim the physics concept about how if you have gravity based drive systems you could possibly use the LaGrange points in each solar system as "launch points", then I also talked with him about the concept of using jump gates (as Eve Online uses, as I was in the open-beta for that game about 10 years ago when Tim and I were discussing these ideas). But when Nicholas took on the project of writing the books for HARP SciFi I was happy to see that he used those ideas.
There are things about the Tintamar setting I like and things that I don't care for, but I'm still a fan of the old classic Spacemaster setting with the Imperium and the various houses and corporations battling for power. But as with some things that are currently being produced being stat'ed for both RM and HARP, might be an easy thing to do (produce such setting products for both the Classic Imperium and the Tintamar settings with stats for both HARP SciFi and a new RMU SciFi (as I'd expect that such a product will be in the plans a year or two down the road).
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There are things about the Tintamar setting I like and things that I don't care for, but I'm still a fan of the old classic Spacemaster setting with the Imperium and the various houses and corporations battling for power. But as with some things that are currently being produced being stat'ed for both RM and HARP, might be an easy thing to do (produce such setting products for both the Classic Imperium and the Tintamar settings with stats for both HARP SciFi and a new RMU SciFi (as I'd expect that such a product will be in the plans a year or two down the road).
I could totally get behind this.
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The intention is that we will have a Spacemaster Imperium sourcebook (at least) for HARP SF and unified Spacemaster (when that happens), but that's some way down the line. (Unless someone wants to write the HARP SF version now?)
There will be Tintamar support in the future and general expansions of the HARP SF system as well. If fans are keen to write, it will happen sooner.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
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Thanks for all the responses. I really hope this game gets the support it deserves.
And I hope someone has the time to follow up on the not-so-subtle hints above about people writing what they want to see..!
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I can confirm that within ICE we're definitely watching and reviewing the comments in this thread. There will be a concerted effort to deliver to your wants.
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There does seem to me to be one glaring hole in the system as it stands compared to others that fill a similar niche, which is setting/planet generation.
It would be great to have an inhabited star system generator that would give you the basic layout of stars and planets and some sort of society generator that would give you, off the top of my head and for one inhabited world, 200m people living under a democratic government with a corporate/frontier culture; with basic technology in most categories but advanced in surveillance electronics. The starport has these characteristics (seen better days, officious customs) and there are the following three or four big conflicts / story hooks going on. There are also the following communities on other worlds.
HARP SF could distinguish itself by escaping the Traveller "mainworld" paradigm without falling into the completism of the GURPS Space system.
SF lends itself to wide-open "sandbox" play and reviewing my suggestions, that is really what I had in mind. Setting generation, NPC lists, more ships.
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There was a multi-part article run in the GuildCompanion.com e-zine a while back by RMF Runyan, titled: "Stellar System Generator" in which he provided a lot of guidance and information (non-system specific, but with a strong basis in real science). This might provide you with a lot of what you mentioned you would like to see Marchand, at least until something more complete can be provided directly by ICE down the road. But it is a very good starting point. Also included is a users manual of sorts for a web-based application that he hosts that can do a lot of the work for you (although you still need to provide some details as a GM for it to use), which is listed as the first link provided here. There is also a later article that he wrote providing a little more details on Celestial Body Classification System. See the following links for details:
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/aug/ssgappusersguide.html (http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/aug/ssgappusersguide.html)
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/aug/ssg01.html (http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/aug/ssg01.html)
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/sep/ssg02.html (http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/sep/ssg02.html)
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/oct/ssg03.html (http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/oct/ssg03.html)
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/nov/ssg04.html (http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/nov/ssg04.html)
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/dec/ssg05.html (http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/dec/ssg05.html)
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2012/mar/cbcs.html (http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2012/mar/cbcs.html)
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Is there a starmap? A map of the galaxy? I mean, the Tintamar setting is interesting to me, although I do find some of the alien species to be odd for player characters - but you never know what some players would want to try - the setting is not very detailed and therefore open to additions by the players/groups/GMs. And of course new writers and such.
Now, for some types of gaming a starmap would be nice to have. Particularly if you want to have exploration type campaigns, or military campaigns.
You see, I was thinking about a GMs kit/GM screen package. A 4-page screen with handy info (and some of that nice artwork spread out for the players' viewing pleasure), plus a few pages with much used tables, like travelling times, plus perhaps a star map of the known galaxy (a perfect world would have a GM map with everything and a PC map with only what is common knowledge), generic npcs and tips and tricks. I mean, slap on an introductory adventure and I'd happily pay 20-30 US standard currency for it, 40 even. Not sure what the price for something like that should be though, but I figure 30 to 40 monies should suffice.
Such an adventure could introduce the players - whatever species (except the Silth perhaps) - to ... Tintamar of course. Perhaps a little tour of the Sol system, visiting the Mars, going to Earth and popping by the Ring City, performing some heist stealing from the Bank of Luna, then bolting away to the Belter league and Tintamar, trying to get through the gate somehow. Either going to Nexus - or finding a way to get to other human colonies in the galaxy. Adventure seeds could include the adventurers being labelled criminals, or being recruited by some clandestine government organisation or part of the army/navy to scout and perform sabotage on Silth installations (sort of like privateers, hint hint). I mean, its an rpg so the options are endless, but something along those lines? Basically start with what is familiar (i.e. human) and then go on from there to the Nexus sector.
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Is there a starmap? A map of the galaxy? I mean, the Tintamar setting is interesting to me, although I do find some of the alien species to be odd for player characters - but you never know what some players would want to try - the setting is not very detailed and therefore open to additions by the players/groups/GMs. And of course new writers and such.
Now, for some types of gaming a starmap would be nice to have. Particularly if you want to have exploration type campaigns, or military campaigns.
You see, I was thinking about a GMs kit/GM screen package. A 4-page screen with handy info (and some of that nice artwork spread out for the players' viewing pleasure), plus a few pages with much used tables, like travelling times, plus perhaps a star map of the known galaxy (a perfect world would have a GM map with everything and a PC map with only what is common knowledge), generic npcs and tips and tricks. I mean, slap on an introductory adventure and I'd happily pay 20-30 US standard currency for it, 40 even. Not sure what the price for something like that should be though, but I figure 30 to 40 monies should suffice.
Such an adventure could introduce the players - whatever species (except the Silth perhaps) - to ... Tintamar of course. Perhaps a little tour of the Sol system, visiting the Mars, going to Earth and popping by the Ring City, performing some heist stealing from the Bank of Luna, then bolting away to the Belter league and Tintamar, trying to get through the gate somehow. Either going to Nexus - or finding a way to get to other human colonies in the galaxy. Adventure seeds could include the adventurers being labelled criminals, or being recruited by some clandestine government organisation or part of the army/navy to scout and perform sabotage on Silth installations (sort of like privateers, hint hint). I mean, its an rpg so the options are endless, but something along those lines? Basically start with what is familiar (i.e. human) and then go on from there to the Nexus sector.
Joel Lovell made a start on an episodic adventure that would take players around the galaxy.
I have a partial star map drawn out but it would need more work to identify additional "suitable" locations for Human Sector solar systems. I was working my way through the various starmapping software for them. For Nexus Sector locations, star systems can just be made up, without fear of upsetting your astronomer players
Best wishes,
Nicholas
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This is something that I've been putting some serious thought into and have been slowly working towards. I've been pulling-together/compiling existing astronomical data and such. But need to finish my current project first.
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I would like to see "Star Sector Atlases".
each book would have a sector in space with maps of the sector. sector would have planets with brief information on them by a 'code' ala traveler. ie: biohazard/radiation warnings, tech levels, types of spaceports, etc.
the "silith sector" would be an example- the capitol world etc.
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So what about some simple 90 page pdf books for each class
and for each race and new race from Spacemaster
Merchants & frighters ,
some unique ships
trade and the stack market
ways to finance your first ship
some random cargo manifest
and trade ,Terrifs and Taxes .
Rogues Gallery
Trader guilds, Unions and Corperations
this is just merchanst
Solders
background
random tour generation
mission generations
ranks has its benefits
pensions and retirements
types of weapons and armor
Combat boats and gunships
Planet defense forces
Starsoldiers and spacetroopers
Techs
Schools and trades institutions
vocations
training packages
Unions and Shops
NPCS AND pATRONS
gEAR AND TOOLS
Droids and robots
Pilots
TRAINING AND sCHOOL
vOCATIONS
Missions AND Sorties
training packages
flight clubs and Races
vehicles and ships
all the extra and speed too
these are just eome ideals of books and chapters thier is so much more NPSC Gallery for each with setting specific details and so much more,
let me know I well get writing on them right a way !!!!!
JUST A FEW IDEALS
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So, I've been thinking more about this. I'm in no way a professional RPG writer, and it's been about 7 years since I had an active HARP group, SF or Fantasy, so I'm not really up to date nor fluent in HARP-speak anymore.
I've been look around and thinking about how I could contribute, but also what I would like as supplements. One thing really comes to mind: thematic books. These would not be catch all books, more or less complete with everything species, weapons, starship or gear... but rather aimed at types of games like exploration, military (can easily be at least three books: (space) navy, army and covert ops/intelligence), smuggling, bounty hunting, treasure hunting, etc.
They should include gear, equipment, talents and more fitting for that type of game. Design suggestions for characters, profession combos, present and exemplify the Tintamar species in these various themes. I think a central important fact is that the books should be tied to Tintamar, but of course not exclusively, but when it comes to examples at the very least.
I want books similar to Martial Law I guess, but with specific information about types of games, rather than whole new systems and rules for extra stuff. I mean, sure add in new stuff, but make it relevant to a small adventure (which I think should be included in these books too) and a bunch of adventure seeds.
I know this is partly what ICE/GCP has been doing, but at the same time the products are sometimes "too complete". I think a living, vibrant game is in need of a setting (or settings) that is a like a lymphatic system in all its products. Instead of a source book on Earth-space and one on the Nexus sector, why not make books on aspects of this, like: Earth: the navy, Earth: clandestine dealings, Earth: corporate espionage, Belter league: the smuggling ring, Tintamar: survival outside the law; Tintamar: sentient prey, hunting for cash... Nexus: meeting new allies, Nexus: new black markets ... and so on... thoughts? am I getting my idea across? These books would naturally sometimes overlap, but is that necessarily a bad thing?
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So if I understand correctly, it would be a supplement product - probably in the 48 page range which would include some or all of the following with a specific focus:
* Setting Material related to Tintamar setting (fluff and color writing to describe concept and general application)
* Rules Material for -
- Professions
- Races
- Cultures
- Equipment (including ships if appropriate)
- Skills
- Talents/Abilities
* Short adventure for a 1-shot
* Adventure Seeds for other opportunities to use the material
I know this is largely regurgitation of your post - but sometimes it helps to restate what a person is asking for to ensure you have it right. :D
I like the concept and think this would fit well with gamers being able to use in Tintamar, or apply to their own world. If done right there should be enough content to expand the Tintamar universe info, but not so much as to make it not desireable for other gamers.
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:) Yeah, around 50 pages could or would suffice I think, it would vary of course, but generally a good number yes.
So I envision/fantasise about a series oriented around areas/planets, but also styles of play. I mean, most professions can find work within most styles of play, be it exploration, espionage, smuggling, bounty hunting, etc. So profession source books in themselves isn't necessary, I think, but of course if a new profession is introduced somewhere that would be something else I guess. Mostly I think about information about how to use professions within a certain style of play, or venues for work in an area or on a planet - including species examples of various professions, TPs/Organisations (i.e. guilds) and so on.
The area/planet supplements should perhaps be slightly more Tintamar focused, but still have aspects of styles of play. The could also be small-ish chapters in the styles of play books, for instance a 1-page spread with information that corresponds with the style presented in the book. This will mean that some planets will, and should, overlap with other books, but I think that is a good thing. While these planets could be intended for Tintamar, they could also easily be ported to other settings, for instance a sidebar could make some suggestions about this? The styles of play books could present some of these in the 1-shot and as seeds for exploration, trade, adventuring, etc.
So, a third regurgitation of my post here. Ooops. :)
The reason for this is that I'd prefer my players to immerse themselves in the game, not the system. I love the harp system, its simple and flexible, but it is prone to calculations and educated guesses about probability that - to me - removes the immersions, suspension of disbelief and role playing... this is of course not a system trait, but its why I'd love more fluff, suggestions and sample adventures which show the depth and alternatives the system actually presents the PCs with. How can the system enhance the narrative, and the other way around, without large systemic changes (we don't want that), without players ending up not doing stuff because they feel their chances are too slim. This is high-adventure, or heroic adventure, role playing. I feel that the only thing "missing" is material that focuses on these other less rules-heavy aspects of the game.
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My thought process from your previous post would include the planets/areas info in the setting material and in the adventure.
Product about exploratory teams may include a new planet that is habitable, possesses some new monsters, includes some special equipment to support that type of work, some special abilities/talents for the local inhabitants, of course new cultures, skills (or possibly sub-skills). Follow-up's could take that same team to other worlds...
Another product could be about a military team going into an urban environment on a civilized world to settle an uprising...
Corporate Espionage on a civilized world, perhaps in one of the major corporate entities identified in the main book.
Is this on track?
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Yes. Sounds like it :)
I've been trying to make some starting adventures for some of my players the last few months - but the regular gaming group and RL events have prevented this from going beyond looking in the core book and extreme. I've been considering both exploration types, criminal stuff and so on. I think short intro books for that sort of stuff, with follow-up expansions could be cool.
I mean, some stuff could be presented akin to the old Bazaar, or as PDF extras for the more properly made styles or themes books.
Disclaimer: I must admit that I am somewhat inspired by FFG's latest SWRPG line(s) when writing this, and WEG's old ShatterZone game of course. :)