Topic: HARP Sword & Sorcery

[Arioch]

I'm thinking of starting a short S&S campaign using HARP, in conanesque game world created by me. Given that the world will be low-magic, I like the suggestion given in College of Magic of dropping "normal" spells and using only magic rituals to handle spell casting.
Just wanted to hear if someone has ever tried something similar or if someone has some suggestion/consideration.
Thanks!

[buddha]

I'm thinking of starting a short S&S campaign using HARP, in conanesque game world created by me. Given that the world will be low-magic, I like the suggestion given in College of Magic of dropping "normal" spells and using only magic rituals to handle spell casting.
Just wanted to hear if someone has ever tried something similar or if someone has some suggestion/consideration.
Thanks!

I've similar plans lying around myself.
At times I'm fed up with all the instant teleporting and all the other spells that make my work as a GM harder and also makes the gap between the spell users and the others bigger. At times some of my players wonder why the spell users bother hanging around such useless folks at all.

The charm/fetish rules from CoM looks like a good addition to the magical abilities in such a setting.

If ordinary spell casting is taken out of the game I'd consider reducing the penalty to rituals, runes, charm craft and the other skills so the players can use some magic before they reach 5th level.

Apart form that I see nothing that needs to be changed at all.

I don't know if you have any experience with the Earthdawn RPG, but it had an interesting approach to magical items. At first they worked like mundane items, but the more you knew about the items history and the more attuned to it you became, the more of it's powers you could use. It gave magical items more of a personality and I think it would work nice in a S&S setting.

[Arioch]

If ordinary spell casting is taken out of the game I'd consider reducing the penalty to rituals, runes, charm craft and the other skills so the players can use some magic before they reach 5th level.

Good idea! 

I don't know if you have any experience with the Earthdawn RPG, but it had an interesting approach to magical items. At first they worked like mundane items, but the more you knew about the items history and the more attuned to it you became, the more of it's powers you could use. It gave magical items more of a personality and I think it would work nice in a S&S setting.

never played Earthdawn, but that's interesting... if the PCs will ever get their hands on a magical item other than a charm or potion... 

[jasonbrisbane]

Suggestion:

Disallow Personal Mana source and only use Natural and other sources.

Example: Casting any magic would take longer and you would be less likely to get mages in a party (try casting Turn Undead (Base PP 12) over 4 rounds? Any undead would be on top of you before you'd cast it.

Oh, and also disallow fast casting as this would make magic faster....

[RandalThor]

The only problem with the spellcasters having to take so long to cast the spells is that the PCs will know this and act accordingly. (I.e., they will do their absolute best to keep the enemy wizard from getting any spells off before they kill them)

I feel the better way is to allow them some personal mana to do some spells in a quick fashion, but these spells will never be the great big world affecting spells. Just the small tactical, save your a$$ spells that will allow them to escape and then be able to cast the spell that summons the Demon of Might to rend the interloping adventurers.

In all the S&S books that I have read there are reasons that the people fear the wizards, like that the wizards could curse them or turn them into a newt. That flavor does need to be reflected in the rules somehow (a big mistake in some games, I believe) so that the PCs will act accordingly.

[Arioch]

What about using Ritual Magic for casting spells normally and mono-use magical items (like potions, scrolls, or other) when quicker results are needed?
Thus the sorceror could throw an exploding orb at the characters to cover his escape and then prepare a ritual to harm them when he's safe in his hideout.

[Mattiyaho]

When I first read this topic I went home and rolled up a low magic vivamanser. One of my thoughts is to take away middle magic but keep cantrips but at double pp cost and only avalable to a character class that has spell casting abilities. Next I gave him rituals with pp costs that did not excede the ranks he had in rituals they were minor healing, plant healing, neutralise poison, cure insanity, plant groth, and study target all at base effect. I gave him a couple of ranks in runes and potions For runes i would double the pp needed for making them and for potions I would only allow formula potions and they are only good for half the time unless the caster learns a ritual to stabalise them. Also in a low magic setting all materials have half there mana potential so you need twice as much for potions and charm craft. We have some house rules for charm craft. First we use loot rules, and since loot doesn't limit how many charms you can make our rule is that a character knows one object and one action aspect for every three ranks so if a character maxed out his charmcraft he would have to be about 30th level to have all objects and actions so he could be proficient in some charms and it would take a while to be master of all. Also it takes 20 ranks to make fetishes and 40 to make talismans. I gave my character 6 ranks and took the actions of heal and defend with the objects of mind and body. Since a pure casting class doesn't have spells I would give a talent that would give a +10 to one skill in the mystical category at first level and an additional 10 every fith level not to exceede +30, for the semi casters (harpers, rangers, warrior mages etc...) half the bonus. Lastly since my character is rather useless in combat I gave him staff and double strike style since it is a very good defensive style. Also since casters woln't be casting spells in combat some type of light armor may be nessesary to survive.

[jasonbrisbane]

I am one for making simple rules with less work for the GM and players.

The issue I see with the above is that if you allow ritual magic to replace the normal spellcasting then you have to come up with other rules to make it all work.

In my above examples, sure PC's would know when an enemy spellcaster is casting a spell, but thats why enemy spellcasters have hoardes of fighters and lackeys around them - to allow them to get the spells off!

I keep imagining Thulsa Doom (sp?) casting spells at Conan (the movie with Arnie and James Earl Jones).
Conan runs up the steps whilst Doom is trying to cast his spells... (at least thats how I remember it - it was a LOOOONG time ago ... LOL!)

PLUS: spellcasters would (generally) need political power (as I see it in a historical setting)  to be able to research their  practices without the rest of the world finding out... (eg:  needing power to research "horrid witchcraft practices" without the Spanish Dominicans find out...)

[RandalThor]

I think it is not a good idea to use movies or books as an example of how things can work in a game - because players will never act that way. If Conan was being played in a game, the player would have thrown something at Thulsa Doom to "disrupt his spellcasting."

As much as I would like my games to work out more like movies and books, they don't because all the players see the movies and read the books and have played in other games, so they already know of other (usually better) ways of dealing with the situation. No, there have to be tangible, in-game reasons for them to do things a certain way. Having hordes of followers doesn't work for all wizards so another reason for their survival has to be in place. If wizards have to take at least a few minutes to cast a spell - heck even 20-30 seconds - then the vast majority of them wouldn't live to see 20, nontheless get to great wizard status.

Of course, a high intelligence sounds like it would be a reason, but no matter how smart the wizard makes the argument to the character the player can just dig in their heels and ignore it all and just cut the wizard down.

[Arioch]

Surely evil sorcerors will have a lot of lackeys to protect them (since magic is rare and powerful each mage will probably be very influent, feared from the people and many of them will have their own small kingdom...), plus a certain number of summoned creatures.
I think that most of them will never spontaneously enter combat and will have several tricks at hand to help them escaping. But if cornered or taken by surprise (a very rare occasion) they'll be helpless against a skilled fighter. IMHO that's fine and in part reflect the "mood" of the setting