Forum > General Discussion
An Alternative to Levels and Classes
Vladimir:
I'm not keen on level or classes. I ask the players, "So, what level and class am I?"
Fred: "10th Level Air Traffic Controller, retired."
Me: "Only 10th?"
Fred: "Whatever the max is..."
But a person is not his job, a person is the sum of his skills. You are what you do.
As a soldier, we were annually tested to make sure we retained the skills believed to be appropriate for our occupations and respective ranks. Our standards were listed in a small pamphlet similar to this: https://www.milsci.ucsb.edu/sites/secure.lsit.ucsb.edu.mili.d7/files/sitefiles/resources/STP%2021-1-SMCT,%20Warrior%20Skills,%20Level%201.pdf
During the Medieval Period guilds held considerable wealth and political power, over which many historians debate as to their benefits and detrimental effects on society. Guilds were first recorded to exist in Sumer and they are still present in the form of private artisan societies and as labor unions, whose benefits and detriments to society are still up for debate.
Professional guilds provided a skill based rating system that was used to regulate the wages for a worker's labor. A Master could demand more than a Journeyman and a Journeyman could ask for more than an Apprentice. In that respect, a guild could be expected to ensure that a customer received the quality he expected at a uniform price. Guilds were the repositories of knowledge and were responsible for training and reviewing the skills of members.
As a guild member, a man had to meet a certain level of skill on a set number of tasks that would be observed or inspected in order to advance to the next rank. A furniture maker might be given the plans for a cabinet with a set time limit to build the project from a pile of wood to showroom floor condition. There were similar tests for the members of other guilds.
Guilds also imposed restrictions: A man who used a lathe to manufacture metal products was forbidden to turn wood items and vice versa.
How can a non-level system work? Games that use pure skill systems, like Battletech and Element Masters (later released as Gatewars) award points to improve skills at regular intervals, such as after each session or after concluding a mission. Sometimes the players are allotted points during routine down time.
In RM, each level is awarded upon achieving so many experience points and upon reaching that level, a player is awarded DP with which to allocate among his skills. Easy enpugh -If I have 75 DP and the point difference between Level 4 and 5 is 10,000 then 10K divided by 75 would be 133.33 rounded down to 133. So every 133 experience points equals 1 DP.
What prevents a player from just putting points into the same skill? Skills that have received points could be marked every 75 DP/10K EP so they won't be over-allocated to a particular skill. In Gatewars a skill didn't advance until a player used the skill and both succeeded and failed with that skill, which made advancing higher skills much slower, while in Battletech advanced skills cost more.
After 5th level, the experience cost between levels is 20,000 so the points for each DP doubles to 266.66 rounded to 267.
Instead of awarding experience points, a GM could award a player's DP in increments up to 100%.
Let me know your thoughts and ideas.
Cory Magel:
RM is really a hybrid of a level and a skill based system. The levels are really just there for use when doing things like making contested rolls, like someone trying to charm you.
Professions are also best thought of as aptitudes. What you're good at (i.e. easier/cheaper to develop).
You've suggested what I would for giving out DP over the course of a levels progression without having to mess with RM's mechanics too much. Not sure how you'd want to limit overbuying anything specific, but the best way to avoid that is have a diverse game where over-weighing any particular aspect of development would leave you at a severe disadvantage elsewhere. The best way to discourage combat monsters is have an equal amount of non-combat oriented material.
Personally when/if I ran another game I'd just tell the players when to level, typically between sessions. It saves a lot of time and allowed you to control the pace of the campaign.
Vladimir:
--- Quote from: Cory Magel on December 31, 2021, 07:08:07 PM ---RM is really a hybrid of a level and a skill based system. The levels are really just there for use when doing things like making contested rolls, like someone trying to charm you.
Professions are also best thought of as aptitudes. What you're good at (i.e. easier/cheaper to develop).
You've suggested what I would for giving out DP over the course of a levels progression without having to mess with RM's mechanics too much. Not sure how you'd want to limit overbuying anything specific, but the best way to avoid that is have a diverse game where over-weighing any particular aspect of development would leave you at a severe disadvantage elsewhere. The best way to discourage combat monsters is have an equal amount of non-combat oriented material.
Personally when/if I ran another game I'd just tell the players when to level, typically between sessions. It saves a lot of time and allowed you to control the pace of the campaign.
--- End quote ---
I'm just tossing around ideas and alternatives, I have a strong preference for skill based games, and find the idea of levels kind of a dinosaur.
As a GM, I wouldn't care if a player devoted ALL of his DP to favor a skill -Doing so shorts other skills and the rank mods render diminishing returns the higher the rank becomes.
Contested rolls could be handled through RRs modified by certain (to be determined) related skills.
Thanks for your input!
B Hanson:
Welcome to the forums! I've been running a "no-profession" and mostly no-level Shadow World game for quite some time. We have many discussions on this topic over at the Rolemasterblog as wel. Here are several posts from a variety of contributors (they post here as well):
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/no-professions-professions/
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/no-profession-level-less-house-rules/
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/rolemaster-professions-another-take/
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/musings-professions-necessary-rolemaster/
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/can-professionless-provide-detail-rm2/
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/nature-vs-nurture-emphasis-stats-professions/
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/shadow-world-religions-rolemaster-professions/
https://www.rolemasterblog.com/rmc-house-rules-character-creation-5-profession/
Vladimir:
Excellent!
I got a chance to look over your house rules and they are very much in the direction I'm looking. I want a diceless generation system that allows every player the chance to assemble and play the character they wish to play, so a point-purchase character generation works very well.
I'd use points to buy background training and starting equipment, as well.
Example: Want to play a Cleric? Spend 20 points and 12 months to start as a Neophyte with a level in three lists. More points buy more skills/training and maybe some related gear.
I even GMed games with a diceless system -I used computer generated rolls and had players simply declare their actions. It was very popular with most players as it moved very quickly. One player hated it because he couldn't use his "lucky" dice...which he always had to "warm up" before making his "real roll"... I told him the diceless system was created entirely due to his dice fetish.
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