Author Topic: Running the Core XP System  (Read 1254 times)

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Offline Tywyll

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Running the Core XP System
« on: December 20, 2021, 06:46:47 AM »
Has anyone run the core xp system as intended and if so, how did you manage it? Specifically I'm interested in the x5/x2 for 1st and 2nd time modifiers.

The xp amounts are so abysmally small that to advance it seems like you would need either large amounts of gems in treasure piles or judicious use of the x5 first time modifier. But how do you track that? It seems a monstrous task.

Like, the first human, orc, dragon you have killed is probably pretty easy. But the first static roll of every difficulty for every skill? The first crit you take (is it only severity or each type... should my x5 be when I take an A impact and an A slashing?).

I feel certain that the players and GMs just sort of handwaved it most of the time, but if you were going to try to run it by the book, how did you track this? It seems like it would have been far easier to simply reduce the leveling cost for the first 5 levels or so.

Offline MisterK

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2021, 07:24:33 AM »
I ran it in 1986 when I GMed my first RM campaign. Basically, we played 4-5 hours on saturday evening and I spent the next sunday (the whole day, basically) computing the XP for everyone.

In other words - not worth the bother *at all*. If you have to dump a single thing from RM, XP computation takes the top spot.

What I did afterwards ? Remove XPs completely. I give levels when I feel the characters have earned it.

Offline Tywyll

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2021, 08:51:36 AM »
Oh, I have no idea it would be an absolute horror show! If I recall how I did it back in the day, I gave one player a bribe to track the xp on the xp log we used. The campaign was a Dark Space one, so the pcs were like 8th or 10th level, so I didn't really bother with the x5 thing, figuring they had done it all already.

But I am still fixated on how it was supposed to work in practice. I know MERP simplified some elements and I think removed the multiplier.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2021, 10:01:11 AM »
I think you have it right, Tywyll: that was indeed the way it was supposed to work. But, like MisterK, we found it so cumbersome that we just now use milestones.
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Offline pantsorama

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2021, 11:25:34 AM »
Look to the new RMU XP system.  It is much better IMO.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2021, 11:13:10 PM »
We went through these stages...
1. Normal core exp system.
2. Halving damage/crit received exp and doubling output damage/crit exp.
3. Combined group exp per fight based on foes faced.
4. Mission end or goal achieved exp
5. Per session
6. I finally just did away with exp and will tell the players when to level their characters (which would be between sessions typically).
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Offline Hurin

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2021, 09:15:32 AM »
We went through these stages...
1. Normal core exp system.
2. Halving damage/crit received exp and doubling output damage/crit exp.
3. Combined group exp per fight based on foes faced.
4. Mission end or goal achieved exp
5. Per session
6. I finally just did away with exp and will tell the players when to level their characters (which would be between sessions typically).

It's like the five stages of grief... the Six Stages of Experience Point Evolution.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2021, 11:59:12 AM »
Yep. The RMU rules have evolved to stage 4, but personally I'm on stage 6 as well. :)  It's narratively better and so much less work. What it loses is the ability to reward specific conduct that you want to reward (e.g. roleplay bonus), but there are other ways to do that, and you might not need that at all for your group anyway.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2021, 01:48:31 PM »
Obviously peoples feelings about the sense of reward might vary from group to group and person to person, but in the end it was a 'Why the hell didn't we do this many years ago?' moment for me.  No tracking and the GM can control the pace of leveling, so you don't rocket through low levels or get stuck at high levels.

In the end our group tends to like items and/or character progression as the reward resulting from collaboration. However, we have always tended to run long campaigns. Six months would be a very short one and we've had ones last for years (17th level of the top level for one of my player characters).  The manner in which we use Fate Points can also works into it to a degree, as the primary source of replenishing them is by making important foes spend them.  Whenever someone/thing uses a Fate Point the thing (assuming it's a living thing) that cause them to spend it gets that Fate Point.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2021, 04:33:40 PM »
When I started RM2, it was with a group of players who had been together for years.  Depending on the GM, the XP rewards would be all over the spectrum.

"You killed the troll, unlocked the chest, found the secret opening and you killed 3 goblins.... everyone gets 1800 XP."
 
or we had the "Flat Rate GM", the session was worth 900 XP.  Didn't matter what anyone did, if you were there for the gaming session you were rewarded 900-points.

Occasionally we'd have a GM who put some calculation and thought into it and reward what seemed appropriate.  As I started GM-ing and the years went on, I looked over the core XP system and started using it.  It's not that difficult.  I makes notes for each player as we go, I tell the players to track their crits, damage given/taken, etc.  At the end of the game, I go over the events and ask the players to recount their experiences so I'm not trying to remember everything.  As the PCs go  up levels, you don't have to worry about the 1st time bonuses and so on, but those multipliers get them leveled up faster and they enjoy that.  They are able to get out of the growing pains stage and have decently powered PCs after 3-4 sessions.

As a GM "gift of the gods", I also roll a D10 and give an additional percentage bonus added to their totals.  Fate, the gods, whatever they believe in has smiled favourably upon the PC and granted them additional bonus XP.
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Offline EltonJ

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2021, 05:55:01 PM »
I was wondering about using the standard XP rewards system for RM2 and RMSS/FRP.  I then said, "suck it!" and awarded new levels as milestones.  Although I still give karma for my Shadowrun game, in my other games I don't give XP.

Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2021, 04:03:28 AM »
Has anyone run the core xp system as intended and if so, how did you manage it? Specifically I'm interested in the x5/x2 for 1st and 2nd time modifiers.

The xp amounts are so abysmally small that to advance it seems like you would need either large amounts of gems in treasure piles or judicious use of the x5 first time modifier. But how do you track that? It seems a monstrous task.

Like, the first human, orc, dragon you have killed is probably pretty easy. But the first static roll of every difficulty for every skill? The first crit you take (is it only severity or each type... should my x5 be when I take an A impact and an A slashing?).

I feel certain that the players and GMs just sort of handwaved it most of the time, but if you were going to try to run it by the book, how did you track this? It seems like it would have been far easier to simply reduce the leveling cost for the first 5 levels or so.
We had distributed the work of looking up attack results, tracking XP and tracking damage among the players, so that the GM was free for the rest of his work. The player tracking XP then had to write down the XPs for the maneuvers, criticals etc. on the XP sheet. 1st and 2nd time modifiers we used for criticals inflicted on the PCs (per severity) and for killed monsters (per monster type, i.e. orc, troll etc.). The players had to note on the character sheet whether they had received an A-E critical once or twice and which monsters they had killed how often. For other XP types, e.g. spells or maneuvers, we did not care about the 1st or 2nd time modifiers. We did this for years until we changed to goal-based XPs.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2021, 12:21:48 PM »
Tried to find the old exp tracker sheet we had, but it's been so long since we used it I must have dumped it between computer transitions somewhere in the past.  I had built a Word document for all the tracking and we would put them in a dry erase sheet for each character.  Most stuff had it's own little squared off area to track spell cast, crits given, crits taken, etc.

Concussion Hits we tracked this way...
You divide up your HP by four and have any many 'o's as needed for that in each line, then you'd just fill in the circles as you took damage.  End of fight, add them to your exp (there were additional lines for unconsciousness).

ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo  0 mod
ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo -10 mod
ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo -20 mod
ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo -30 mod
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Offline Aspire2Hope

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2021, 05:21:53 AM »
Has anyone run the core xp system as intended and if so, how did you manage it? Specifically I'm interested in the x5/x2 for 1st and 2nd time modifiers.

The xp amounts are so abysmally small that to advance it seems like you would need either large amounts of gems in treasure piles or judicious use of the x5 first time modifier. But how do you track that? It seems a monstrous task.

Like, the first human, orc, dragon you have killed is probably pretty easy. But the first static roll of every difficulty for every skill? The first crit you take (is it only severity or each type... should my x5 be when I take an A impact and an A slashing?).

I feel certain that the players and GMs just sort of handwaved it most of the time, but if you were going to try to run it by the book, how did you track this? It seems like it would have been far easier to simply reduce the leveling cost for the first 5 levels or so.

Still use it :) Every player tracks their own XP indicators for the adventure as creature lvl crit kill or spell lvl or significant MM.
They also have a master sheet to keep track of how often they have done this for calculating XP. MMs  I generally give a multiplier for audacity rather than the number of times attempted.

Creature A B C D E Kill or Spell 1 2 3 4 5 etc

Rather than having to do it all in our head or use a calculator for the final values these days, we use a spreadsheet. Generally, though it is distributed workload and good book-keeping that keeps any version of RM flowing. Although with the arrival of computer-assisted tools it is much easier until the power drops out :).

Offline Tywyll

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2021, 08:21:21 AM »
Has anyone run the core xp system as intended and if so, how did you manage it? Specifically I'm interested in the x5/x2 for 1st and 2nd time modifiers.

The xp amounts are so abysmally small that to advance it seems like you would need either large amounts of gems in treasure piles or judicious use of the x5 first time modifier. But how do you track that? It seems a monstrous task.

Like, the first human, orc, dragon you have killed is probably pretty easy. But the first static roll of every difficulty for every skill? The first crit you take (is it only severity or each type... should my x5 be when I take an A impact and an A slashing?).

I feel certain that the players and GMs just sort of handwaved it most of the time, but if you were going to try to run it by the book, how did you track this? It seems like it would have been far easier to simply reduce the leveling cost for the first 5 levels or so.

Still use it :) Every player tracks their own XP indicators for the adventure as creature lvl crit kill or spell lvl or significant MM.
They also have a master sheet to keep track of how often they have done this for calculating XP. MMs  I generally give a multiplier for audacity rather than the number of times attempted.

Creature A B C D E Kill or Spell 1 2 3 4 5 etc

Rather than having to do it all in our head or use a calculator for the final values these days, we use a spreadsheet. Generally, though it is distributed workload and good book-keeping that keeps any version of RM flowing. Although with the arrival of computer-assisted tools it is much easier until the power drops out :).


I'd love to see your tracking sheet!

I appreciate all the responses. I know milestones are easier, but I loathe them as a GM anda player. I prefer xp for activities I ot my players can control somewhat. Like gold for xp in DnD, I like my players to know exactly what they can pursue to improve. Against the Darkmaster has a good system of checks to award xp that I would probably use if I ran a RM game.

I also think I would remove the multiplier and just say at level 1 all rewards are x5. At level 2 they are x4, at level 3 x3, etc until things don't multiply anymore (except occasional big items like first demon or dragon you kill, etc).

Offline Aspire2Hope

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2021, 05:16:08 AM »
There's nothing special - they just take an A4 sheet of paper rule a column for the creature and one for each crit and a kill and then just tally until it becomes irrelevant. The running record is pretty much that,  a note of the opponent (I give out the levels at the end) and they just right down A B D Kill. Oh and how much damage they take for the combat/session. Really old school.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Running the Core XP System
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2021, 11:32:05 AM »
Tried to find the old exp tracker sheet we had, but it's been so long...
Found the old first and second pages of character sheets and uploaded them to the general Rolemaster bin.
Although I accidentally put one in Bladestorm!
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