Author Topic: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows  (Read 2372 times)

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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2020, 12:49:21 PM »
So, my view is that magical bows effect your OB and magical arrows impart effects.
- The bow makes your aim better or your impact harder (effectively more pull weight). This is reflected in OB.
- The arrows will have properties such as different/additional/improved criticals, effects like a gust of wind, be immune to deflections, make a sound as a signal, 'cast' an AOE dispel at the impact point, etc.

I'd require each and every item be created individually (making magical arrows fairly valuable).

An artifact/legendary bow might fire magical arrows that the bow creates or imbues the normal arrows shot from it with, but that'd be a pretty epic item.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2020, 04:52:52 PM »
In RMU, the bonuses for bows only extend their range, so for a bonus you need to improve the arrow. Sort of the opposite of what Cory just said. But the underlying issue is that stacking bonuses would give missile weapons a disproportionate boost, and it's more interesting to make the bonuses do different things than to simply cut them in half (which is the same as averaging them).

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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2020, 12:32:29 AM »
Ah, yep, range. Hadn't increased ranges on magic items, but I'd likely put that on the bow itself. Again, think of it as akin to pull weight essentially.
- Cory Magel

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(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

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Offline markc

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2020, 11:31:11 AM »
When I think about it IMHO, the bow is providing mainly the power, the arrow is doing all the other stuff and the point of all of the other issues.
And I use that as my basis and go from there.



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Offline Jengada

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2020, 03:37:31 PM »
I really like Cory's distinction about what kinds of enchantments go on the bow, and what kind go on the arrows. That makes it much more worth the time and expense of enchanting a single arrow, if it's more than just the same "+5n" you could have put on a bow and used over, and over. I've got an archer who wants flaming arrows, so I'm considering just suggesting a bow enchanted to cast "wood fires" several times each day, so she can light some arrows on fire.

As an archer, I also like the idea that a +5n bow should get some range boost, because yes, the bow is the source of the power. I don't want to go too far down that realism road, though, because it would suggest that you need bonus arrows (or at least special) with your bonus bow. Stronger bows need stiffer arrows, or the force bends them and makes them fly to the side away from the arrow-rest. I'm far more inclined to say that, when you have a magic bow, the experienced archer knows they need different arrows.
More generally (and off my original topic, obviously), the quality of both the bow and the arrow matter because of the way Rolemaster is built. In a two-roll system, I'd make the bow bonus apply to damage rolls, and the arrow bonus apply to precision/to-hit rolls. But we all know you can't do that in Rolemaster. Maybe another (heretical?) option is to allow the arrow bonus to modify a crit roll, like ambush. That's the best "precision" bonus we have in RM, really.
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Offline Jengada

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2020, 10:51:44 AM »
- The arrows will have properties such as different/additional/improved criticals, effects like a gust of wind, be immune to deflections, make a sound as a signal, 'cast' an AOE dispel at the impact point, etc.

Thinking about this more and looking through Spell Law (don't have all of my companions with me right now) I'm finding very, very few spells that would work "on impact" or carry to affect a target.In RM2 all of the Essence Dispell [realm] and Un-[realm] spells require concentration, and Quiet, while it can be cast on a moving target (an arrow) only affects a 1' radius around the target. This basically reduces the arrow to a wand, that the archer would use when they nock it.
A few ideas come to mind, then.
* I like the idea I mentioned above about arrow bonuses being able to modify crits. The fact you might miss, wasting the bonus, counters the power of crit-adjustments. You could also say that the bonus is halved to get the range of potential crit adjustment (e.g., +5 arrow can move a crit up or down 3 points, +10 can modify crit by 5, etc.)
* Compared to normally casting a spell at a target some distance away, having to cast-then-hit with the arrow is more restrictive. One could simply say, imbedding a ranged spell in a projectile for single-use on impact can be done with normal "imbed" spells. The only remaining question would be, does the archer need to attune with each arrow to be able to activate the spell? Does the projectile need to be intelligent, to avoid activation time? Does the more restrictive nature of "must hit to activate, one-use only" compensate enough that activation can be automatic?
* These sorts of arrows are not for damaging or impairing enemies - they can be shot into a wall, a curtain, etc. and the effect is "deposited" there
 
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2020, 11:56:18 PM »
- The arrows will have properties such as different/additional/improved criticals, effects like a gust of wind, be immune to deflections, make a sound as a signal, 'cast' an AOE dispel at the impact point, etc.
Thinking about this more and looking through Spell Law (don't have all of my companions with me right now) I'm finding very, very few spells that would work "on impact" or carry to affect a target.In RM2 all of the Essence Dispell [realm] and Un-[realm] spells require concentration, and Quiet, while it can be cast on a moving target (an arrow) only affects a 1' radius around the target. This basically reduces the arrow to a wand, that the archer would use when they nock it.
The absolute first thing I'd say is, if you're an RM user and you're going strictly by the published rules, you're in a pretty small minority  ;) . They're magic. Make them work how you want.  Still, the RMSS Treasure Companion provides the rules if you need them for various effects.

You could embed things like...

RMSS Closed Essence's Dispellling Ways you have:
4. Dispel Essence I — Any active spell from the realm of Essence
that is on the target must make are RR (use the level of that
spell’s caster as the spells level). If the spell fails its RR, it is
dispelled. (with Dispell Mentalism and Dispell Channeling at 5th and 6th level)

Un-[Realm] spells are against a target and lasts for a full day.
17. Unessence — Target has no Essence power points (and thus
can throw no Essence spells) for 24 hours (this includes spells
cast using spell bonus items). This can also be cast against items
which could normally cast spells. Hybrid spell casters who have
Essence as one of their realms only have access to half their
normal power points (again, the other realms at the next two levels).

In Open Channeling's Sounds Way you have the 7th level spell 'Silence I' with a 1min/level duration;
Creates a 1'R area around the target, into and out of which sound cannot travel; if the point is on a mobile object or being, it will move with the object/being.
This would prohibit, or at least provide a penalty, to spells with a verbal component. You cast it on the arrow and shoot them with the arrow. They won't get an RR as a result of the spell being on an object and not them, but they could pull the arrow out (possibly taking some damage/crit as a result).

Close Mentalism you could use these to destroy a wall for example...
10. Cracks Call — Any previous cracks or flaws in material up to 10'x10'x10' section will extend to their limit.

Quote
* I like the idea I mentioned above about arrow bonuses being able to modify crits. The fact you might miss, wasting the bonus, counters the power of crit-adjustments. You could also say that the bonus is halved to get the range of potential crit adjustment (e.g., +5 arrow can move a crit up or down 3 points, +10 can modify crit by 5, etc.)
Sounds like you're using RM2, so your options may be more limited if trying to use strictly published material/rules, but you seem to be liking the idea of what I suggest above. Make your own effects up.  You could have all kinds of magic arrows with a little creativity.


- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline brole

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Re: Alchemist General spells enchanting arrows
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2020, 04:17:37 AM »
- The arrows will have properties such as different/additional/improved criticals, effects like a gust of wind, be immune to deflections, make a sound as a signal, 'cast' an AOE dispel at the impact point, etc.

Thinking about this more and looking through Spell Law (don't have all of my companions with me right now) I'm finding very, very few spells that would work "on impact" or carry to affect a target.In RM2 all of the Essence Dispell [realm] and Un-[realm] spells require concentration, and Quiet, while it can be cast on a moving target (an arrow) only affects a 1' radius around the target. This basically reduces the arrow to a wand, that the archer would use when they nock it.
A few ideas come to mind, then.
* I like the idea I mentioned above about arrow bonuses being able to modify crits. The fact you might miss, wasting the bonus, counters the power of crit-adjustments. You could also say that the bonus is halved to get the range of potential crit adjustment (e.g., +5 arrow can move a crit up or down 3 points, +10 can modify crit by 5, etc.)
* Compared to normally casting a spell at a target some distance away, having to cast-then-hit with the arrow is more restrictive. One could simply say, imbedding a ranged spell in a projectile for single-use on impact can be done with normal "imbed" spells. The only remaining question would be, does the archer need to attune with each arrow to be able to activate the spell? Does the projectile need to be intelligent, to avoid activation time? Does the more restrictive nature of "must hit to activate, one-use only" compensate enough that activation can be automatic?
* These sorts of arrows are not for damaging or impairing enemies - they can be shot into a wall, a curtain, etc. and the effect is "deposited" there

As close to rules as written I suggest using Warding Law from RM2 II. (Runemaster base).
This list specifies that imbedded spells can be triggered when certain conditions are met, in our case arrow impact.
I’ve considered 2 ways of implementing this. (I’ve designed an item using option a).
a)   Imbed->Ward Spell->Spell to be triggered
b)   Imbed->Ward Spell-> Imbed-> Spell to be triggered
Several wards will all trigger at once on impact and the arrow will look great with the fancy magic runes on it.

However you might want this to be a new spell list that must be researched for arrows instead of the default Warding Law.

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Further from rules as written an arrow enchanted with a demon could behave in a particular way upon impact.

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Normal rules as written, enchanting an item with intelligence is done to avoid attunement rolls for the magic item.
House ruling spell mastery and/or magical ritual for the manufacturing Alchemist you could allow the intelligent magic arrow to cast the imbedded spells one at a time upon impact.
e crits all round