Author Topic: Spell Research?  (Read 633 times)

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Offline thrud

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Spell Research?
« on: September 30, 2020, 07:02:36 AM »
I am interested in hearing everyones view on spell research.
IMHO any magic user should be able to research spells, not just pure's.
The pure users might be best and fastest, but I see no reason to flat out deny other spell users from researching spells.

How do you view/handle it?

Offline terefang

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2020, 09:08:20 AM »
lets construct a real-world analoge:

  • Scientists create/research new Spell Lists.
  • Engineers create/research new Spells within a List
  • Technicians create/research variations of existing Spells within a List

i think you can answer yourself who is the pure/hybrid/semi spell user.

T
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Offline thrud

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 10:14:47 AM »
I won't argue with that since it mirrors my own sentiment almost perfectly.
If anything I'm happy I'm not alone regarding this.  ;D
lets construct a real-world analoge:

  • Scientists create/research new Spell Lists.
  • Engineers create/research new Spells within a List
  • Technicians create/research variations of existing Spells within a List

i think you can answer yourself who is the pure/hybrid/semi spell user.

T

Offline markc

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 01:50:20 PM »
IMHO,
Anyone can research and design spells it is not dependent on professions or type of professions. You could say that there are boundary conditions in that Pure Arms do not have their own base spell lists so they could not research their own base lists, they could work on own (or other) realm base lists design though.


Is that what you are looking for?
MDC
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Offline markc

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2020, 01:57:04 PM »
A thought that I think needs another post is this,
Some people in use RM professions as jobs and you can switch between then if you meet specific criteria. One of those is Terry Amthor in his RM2 game (I know that there are quite a few differences in the game(s) in this area), in my RMSS game I do not allow switching professions as I view them as genetic profiles (as well as some other base changes to the system that have profound impact on the game, ie I do not require a 90 in prime stats for profession I require a 70). Unless you can change you genetics you cannot alter your profession by will but there are other things that can alter you DP values for specific skill category's.


MDC 
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline thrud

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2020, 02:07:56 PM »
Thanks for the post(s), and once more I'm in agreement.
IMHO profession is a misnomer,  archetype would have been more fitting since it describes a character's natural talent at learning different skills.

Offline markc

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2020, 02:28:31 PM »
The idea that you can change your profession if you have 90's+ in the proper prime stats can be fun but it also can be unbalancing as it can promote more min-max'ing.
There was a past poster who had all players use the Everyman professions and IIRC RPed getting base spell lists. Again this is a departure from the core rules that could be fun and different. In fact I could see a racial ability (talent/flaw) that states this is they way a race plays the game vs others.


MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2020, 02:36:46 PM »
I tend to see 'profession' the same way. I agree that archetype might be a better term.

You need 'professions' in a game like D&D because otherwise there's not enough space for unique builds like the Fighter who learns some spells. But I don't think you need to give players the chance to change 'professions' in Rolemaster, since any class can learn any skill or spell.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline markc

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2020, 03:21:14 PM »
Hurin,
Agreed (sorry do to software my reply button does not work so quoting posts is an issue).
Note: Also noticed that the keys on this old laptop are having issues but I think I fixed everything.


If you want more magic for Pure Arms in your game you can introduce TP spell lists or change the DP cost of the various spell categories vs changing professions.
Having said that though in a highly modified RM2 game I talked to someone about the change profession idea to get cheaper DP costs for skills/spells worked for them in a limited scope. IIRC it was over a small level range of 5-10 levels so it is hard to guage completely the long term effects in this area. 


MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2020, 06:51:52 AM »


  • Technicians create/research variations of existing Spells within a List


Correction:  Technicians fix the spell after the Engineers break it. :D

I'm in the same boat with most everyone here.  Anyone should be able to research spells, including non-spell users.  Nothing in the real world or the gaming world can prevent a person or PC from opening a book and trying to read it.  I know nothing at all about nuclear physics, but I can easily go to a library (or the internet) and start reading a book on it.  I won't be any good at it or even understand what I'm reading, but I can certainly try.  Who knows, maybe I gain a dust mote of an understanding of it.  If (in RM2) a non-spell user can spend 20 DP for a 5% chance to learn an open spell list, that alone proves that the PC is able to research magic and stand a chance to learn some magic. 
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2020, 07:12:31 PM »
As for limiting research to Pures, that seems wrong to me. I did suggest in RMU Spell Law that the GM might want, for example, to limit Closed List research to Pure casters (though that is not a core rule, but an example of one possible house rule), but I would think that the best person to research a Ranger spell is a Ranger. One can affix all sorts of specific limitations such as a knowledge of fifty existing spells before attempting new research, to have an adequate general background knowledge of spells. It all depends on the GM and the setting. Spell research might not even be possible in some settings, all spells having been passed down by the gods.
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Offline terefang

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Re: Spell Research?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2020, 10:15:00 PM »
If (in RM2) a non-spell user can spend 20 DP for a 5% chance to learn an open spell list, that alone proves that the PC is able to research magic and stand a chance to learn some magic.

i would separate learning extisting spell lists from researching new ones.
I'd swallow cthulhu whole, with sushi and soy-sauce.

Currently: [BME] [FitD]
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