Topic: How long can you maintain concentration for?

[Ginger McMurray]

How long is too long to keep focusing on a single spell? RM2, meaning it's 50% activity.

We don't use exhaustion points because it's too fiddly for me.

[Jengada]

I think what I've done in the past is, after a few rounds I start making them do SD rolls to maintain concentration. Might modify for activity around them making it harder to concentrate.

[Ginger McMurray]

I was trying to think of a way to add Meditation skill to the mix.

[jdale]

RMSS Mentalism Companion has a Spell Concentration skill. The number of ranks is the base number of rounds you can concentrate, and then you need a roll every increment of that.

If you want to use Meditation, using the number of ranks in a similar way seems convenient.

[Hurin]

Just FYI, RM2 mandated that characters spend 1 exhaustion point every 6 rounds of Concentration -- that was the same as missile fire. So the intent seems to have been that concentration was about as fatiguing as shooting a bow. An average character (50 exhaustion points) could go for 300 rounds before being exhausted). I know you're not using exhaustion points, but did just want to lay out what the original parameters were, for a baseline on balance issues.

As for alternative solutions, I really like the RMU system: it just calls for checks if you are doing something that could reasonably exhaust you. They have used the same basic equation for Concentration, but now instead of spending a point after 6 rounds, you just make a check. The new system means you don't have to keep track of anything, and there are gradations (-5, -10, etc.) along the path to absolutely exhausted.

[Aspire2Hope]

Just FYI, RM2 mandated that characters spend 1 exhaustion point every 6 rounds of Concentration -- that was the same as missile fire. So the intent seems to have been that concentration was about as fatiguing as shooting a bow. An average character (50 exhaustion points) could go for 300 rounds before being exhausted). I know you're not using exhaustion points, but did just want to lay out what the original parameters were, for a baseline on balance issues.

As for alternative solutions, I really like the RMU system: it just calls for checks if you are doing something that could reasonably exhaust you. They have used the same basic equation for Concentration, but now instead of spending a point after 6 rounds, you just make a check. The new system means you don't have to keep track of anything, and there are gradations (-5, -10, etc.) along the path to absolutely exhausted.

So by that measure (yes I know not physically fatigues) a concentration based spell should only be active for around 5 mins. You could add SD checks with increasing difficulty to scale it. This can even be done for distractions - I always felt playing an instrument and singing an encouraging song was not an easy task when everyone is running to thump clumps out of each other.

[markc]

I would create a house rule such as this:
How long: SD score/10 rounds + 1 round per 5 racial stat bonus (If it is negative I would either have no penalty or 1/2 the value of the stat bonus).
Options:
1) No extra time beyond base above
2) Extra time required roll and could be modified by specific skills and or create skill (RM2 in general tends to be starved for DP's IMHO and thus I would probably not create a new skill, but if you wan to do and test it out )

[/size][size=78%]MDC  [/size]

[Ginger McMurray]

Thanks, all! I think I'll day 4 minutes, with meditation checks every 30 seconds after that.  I don't want to make it impossible. I just want to have a framework in place for then the player inevitably pushes the limits.

[Majyk]

Beware that some spells might have longer concentration periods where spells last in periods of minutes/10 minutes/hours, etc.

For our game, I always made sure to use player stats where some rules don’t do so(WTH are Magic Realm Stat Boni not incorporated into efficacy of spells?! BARs.  AG is allowed for EARs! Grrr.).

I made Concentration in increments of both the Spell’s Level + a PC’s Magic Realm Total Bonus in rounds.
Higher level spells last longer due to the amount of power cast into them.

This allowed for most spells to never need checks just due to PC ability alone, unless some anomaly/mishap forced one.

Then again, as I add it up - this does end up hovering around the 4+ minute mark for most maxed out Pure Spell Users, but does start showing fewer returns for those Professions that don’t or can’t do so(Hybrid/Semi/Non Spell Users that have to average or rarely put their best TEMP. #s in their Magic Realm Stats).

As mentioned above, the threshold would rise with each successful Skill Check to show extra strain of keeping things going, while also reducing the time between checks by whatever amount you feel that it should.

[Hurin]

(WTH are Magic Realm Stat Boni not incorporated into efficacy of spells?! BARs.  AG is allowed for EARs! Grrr.).

One of my first house rules for RM2 back in the day was to allow casters to add their realm stat bonus to ESF roles. It really helped with the speed of spellcasting (e.g. a level 1 Magician might actually be able to cast a spell more than once every three rounds).

Happily, RMU now allows casters to add their realm stat to their Spell Casting Roll, which also means that the realm stat affects how hard it is to resist their spells.

[Ginger McMurray]

Beware that some spells might have longer concentration periods where spells last in periods of minutes/10 minutes/hours, etc.

Yes, but those spells allow you to turn your concentration on and off. For instance, you don't have to concentrate for 5 solid minutes on Detect Channeling. You can concentrate for a moment to scan a particular area, do other stuff for a couple of minutes, and then concentrate on a new area. They maintain themselves.

[jdale]

The spells that are limited by concentration duration are the ones marked "C" with no time.

We were once exploring an ancient ruin that had been on an ocean (now desert), and there was a now-empty giant aquarium (big enough to have pods of whales). The grate protecting the drain was made of foot-thick gold bars with laen cores, because gold doesn't corrode and because the GM figured we would never be able to cut through it and take any. But we also had a magic item capable of casting Sunfire True once per day, as long as it was recharged in sunlight on a daily basis. When you only have one casting of the spell, your concentration time really matters....

That funded our group's operations for several years.   (We used most of it to fortify a small border town that we expect will basically just serve as a speed bump and warning post for the massive invasion we expect in a year or two.)

[markc]

I was thinking a bit on this and this is something you may want to look into for the future:


1) RM is generally a game of skills and not stats to do things, ie you use a skill modified by a stat bonus to do stuff.
2) DP is limited in RM 2, so what skill can I use? IMHO the skill here would be (I am drawing a blank as to the skill but I think this is right) Power Manipulation (PM). Now in the past I have seen PM skill used by list, by general list area realm:open, realm:closed, realm:base, realm:base other, etc vs a skill for each list (in general PM can be very powerful in games and some GM's want to either limit it and or not use it at all.)
3) If you use PM then you can have mods to actions that use other skills, examples meditation provides a bonus to PM use in the area of Concentration based on the number of ranks they have in the meditation skill.
4) PM in general can make spell casters even more useful/powerful vs Pure Arms and can begin to dominate the game even more. But every game and group is different and some do not have any problems with some players taking a more active roll in some areas.




MDC

[brole]

I find I can listen to an audio book while driving for about 12 minutes before the mind starts wandering and I'm not listening properly.
This could be a similar instance of 'multi tasking' concentration. For in game maybe bonus minutes for each concentration +1 level bonus.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

"SQUIRELL" !!!!

[Ginger McMurray]

I find I can listen to an audio book while driving for about 12 minutes before the mind starts wandering and I'm not listening properly.
This could be a similar instance of 'multi tasking' concentration. For in game maybe bonus minutes for each concentration +1 level bonus.

I don't think I'd. consider listening the same as a Rolemaster "concentrate" action. Unless listening to a book makes you walk half as quickly. I would think it's closer to doing a difficult puzzle or math problem.