Author Topic: Tinkering with the Bard  (Read 4475 times)

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Offline ToM

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Re: Tinkering with the Bard
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2009, 08:53:13 AM »
Any news on the topic from Vroomfogle?  ???
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Offline vroomfogle

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Re: Tinkering with the Bard
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2009, 09:55:43 AM »
Nope, as usual I've got too many projects that are taking too long.   I've got to finish up some coding in the RM ruleset for Fantasy Grounds before I move onto something else.

Offline ToM

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Re: Tinkering with the Bard
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2009, 11:04:49 AM »
Well, I'll stay tuned anyways (PS: same here).

As for me, at the moment I'm using as substitute lists Holy Healing and Inspiring Ways, using them bardy-style. Works quite well.
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Offline Nders

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Re: Tinkering with the Bard
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2009, 03:52:58 PM »
What I did when confronted by this problem was use the rule about converting bards to essence. This included changing their costs in attunement and runes to 3/7 and 3/6 respectively. The next thing I did was somewhat more radical. I tried it once but it worked like a charm. I allowded the bard to aquire the healing songs from the MERP sourcebook "hands of the healer" letting all the different songs be developed as singular skills. This gave the bard a wide range of possibilities without tampering with his base lists. I should not that I use the 2.nd edition spell law which means that I do not have to bother with discarding entertaining ways - and I would  ;D

Offline ToM

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Re: Tinkering with the Bard
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2009, 02:30:25 AM »
That earned you an idea point from me  ;)
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Offline Grinnen Baeritt

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Re: Tinkering with the Bard
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2020, 03:14:06 PM »
One of the greatest limiting factors is the "Concentration" factor of the Bards Primary spell list "Controlling Songs".

I understand the necessity for concentration, and agree with it, but it does make it somewhat less effective in situations where it could and perhaps should be MORE effective than standard mentalism casters because of the additional requirements of the related performance. 
For one, it's rare that only one target will actually "hear/see" the performance, but easily overpowered if it become (perhaps more logically) all targets within a radius. The limiting factor should be the Bards ability to hold the attention of it's audience on them NOT the other way round!!! In theory Bards could be any, or all the realms. I personally think mentailsm "fits" because the "Songs" lists (specifically) are "only swaying, influencing and affecting minds"

Perhaps, 

1. Make Target, "Audience" and simply modify RR by the number of Targets that the Bard is attempting to affect at the same time. (They could chose just one.. or more than one, but do not have to attempt to affect them all.. i.e. 1 target = +0 2 Targets = -20 etc....

2. Then make "Song" effects transferable within the confines (Radius and duration) of the performance. Thus, whilst the Bard continues to perform (Concentrate) additional or optional "Targets" can be selected and possibly affected (getting the above modified RR as normal, with any unaffected then being immune to that specific performance. (This means once a target "drops or leaves the Bard's influence" the spell now continues and be re-targeted or a target that wasn't originally in "range" can now become affected.

3. I'd like to see the option, for "Inspiring Songs". These work exactly the same way as above, in other words the Bard has to concentrate, and focus to affect a number of targets, but these being "allies", instead of enemies. The list could include spells that provide relief in combat (due to morale, perhaps lessening of wound/bleeding/stun penalties.. NB. Not healing wounds simply reducing the penalties whilst actively engaged in other things.) or just straight out bonuses to Melee Combat/MM

4. Involve the Bard's actual performance skill in the casting procedure... Firstly to determine the performances  "Range/Radius" plus also to get spell-casting bonuses (like the sort of optional bonuses that Essense casters can automatically get for "Obvious and loud spell-casting" for casting checks. 

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Tinkering with the Bard
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2020, 08:43:44 AM »
One of the greatest limiting factors is the "Concentration" factor of the Bards Primary spell list "Controlling Songs".

I understand the necessity for concentration, and agree with it, but it does make it somewhat less effective in situations where it could and perhaps should be MORE effective than standard mentalism casters because of the additional requirements of the related performance. 
For one, it's rare that only one target will actually "hear/see" the performance, but easily overpowered if it become (perhaps more logically) all targets within a radius. The limiting factor should be the Bards ability to hold the attention of it's audience on them NOT the other way round!!! In theory Bards could be any, or all the realms. I personally think mentailsm "fits" because the "Songs" lists (specifically) are "only swaying, influencing and affecting minds"

Perhaps, 

1. Make Target, "Audience" and simply modify RR by the number of Targets that the Bard is attempting to affect at the same time. (They could chose just one.. or more than one, but do not have to attempt to affect them all.. i.e. 1 target = +0 2 Targets = -20 etc....

2. Then make "Song" effects transferable within the confines (Radius and duration) of the performance. Thus, whilst the Bard continues to perform (Concentrate) additional or optional "Targets" can be selected and possibly affected (getting the above modified RR as normal, with any unaffected then being immune to that specific performance. (This means once a target "drops or leaves the Bard's influence" the spell now continues and be re-targeted or a target that wasn't originally in "range" can now become affected.

3. I'd like to see the option, for "Inspiring Songs". These work exactly the same way as above, in other words the Bard has to concentrate, and focus to affect a number of targets, but these being "allies", instead of enemies. The list could include spells that provide relief in combat (due to morale, perhaps lessening of wound/bleeding/stun penalties.. NB. Not healing wounds simply reducing the penalties whilst actively engaged in other things.) or just straight out bonuses to Melee Combat/MM

4. Involve the Bard's actual performance skill in the casting procedure... Firstly to determine the performances  "Range/Radius" plus also to get spell-casting bonuses (like the sort of optional bonuses that Essense casters can automatically get for "Obvious and loud spell-casting" for casting checks. 

This thread is over a decade old. Since this discussion, the Guild Companion published an article where I did some pretty extensive revision of Bardic magic, and this was further refined for the RMU Spell Law (and the Bard was moved to Essence).
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