Author Topic: Illusion question  (Read 496 times)

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Offline Ruffie

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Illusion question
« on: February 18, 2020, 10:57:01 AM »
Hi folks,

Question about how you would GM the following idea:
My players come upon a monster which is large (think about the size of a troll I guess) but is actually an illusion cast by a much smaller character (I'm thinking of a low-end medium demon) who hides inside the illusion. He has cast the illusion on himself and attacks the party. Or my party knowing… they attack him first.

Now if I understand the rules correctly they can't see him because he is obscured by the illusion. He would have found a way to see the party otherwise he would have been walking around blindly so I'm thinking some kind of sense.

If my party attacks the illusion, would the attacks pass right through it? And if the demon from within the illusion attacks, it would seem that the attack would not quite connect as the claw of the troll would pass through the enemy but the claw of the demon would connect right?

- Would the demon be given a bonus to his OB seeing as the party would not be able to see the attack coming?
- Would the party be able to 'target' him with mind control spells (calm, sleep etc) ?
- How would a party go about to defeat a monster like this?

Excuse me if my story seems incoherrent English isn't my first language.

Offline mtpnj

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Re: Illusion question
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2020, 11:14:37 AM »
Illusions are tough to play.  If you look at the illusion spell caster lists, depending on the spell, the caster can add "touches" to the illusion.  These touches would/could feel real and actually do damage to someone. Once these touches are used up then the illusion either disappears or makes it easier to discover.   so if 5 touches after 5 hits by the party then they would realize something is not right.  if the demon is actually striking them from inside i don't think that I would count his attack against a touch.  i am at work and do not remember exactly how the Offensive bonus for an illusion is determined.

Offline B Hanson

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Re: Illusion question
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2020, 11:48:34 AM »


https://www.rolemasterblog.com/rolemaster-spell-law-deconstructed-illusions-broken-mechanic/
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Offline Ruffie

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Re: Illusion question
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2020, 06:28:27 AM »
I'm sorry but I don't think I was clear in what I meant. In Spell law (frp) it is stated that illusions are a visual illusion and that they can be detected as one but that this does not negate the illusion.

I mean that the demon is inside the illusion of a troll. The movemets of the "troll" mimick the movements of the demon but the demon is of much smaller size as the demon. The "attack" which the troll makes would simply pass through the PC but the attack of the demon would seem to come out of the belly of the troll and thus would be almost impossible to see coming or to defend against.

Now I could handle this in two ways I think:
1. Give the demon a bonus to OB
2. Give the PC a negative to his DB

Also when the demon defends against attacks from the pc's he would get a bonus to DB or the PC a negative modifier. Problem being for the PC that he can not effectively target the demon who is hidden (partial or full) by a larger illusion.

Now when it comes to spellcasting the PC can't 'target' the troll with any mind spells because there simply is no troll to target. He can't see the demon inside so how would the caster target the demon?

Offline Fingolfin80

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Re: Illusion question
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 07:42:33 AM »
I think you could handle it that way, but the very instant they see a part of the troll pass through them they should be given a chance to detect the illusion.

Offline jdale

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Re: Illusion question
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2020, 05:38:21 PM »
Getting the troll illusion to move in concert with the demon would be tricky. You would normally use Facade for that, but the size has to be close in that case, and it's assumed it doesn't give any offensive/defensive advantage. There's also Light Glamour but that's only for small objects.

If you created a spell customized Facade that does permit a greater size differential, I would treat it defensively as giving the benefits of a Displacement spell. Sometimes the attack just goes through the illusionary body without hitting anything. It would be obvious to the attackers that it did so, but it would be up to them to figure out why. They would eventually realize that they have better chances if they aim lower rather than high (unless the demon is flying inside the illusion).

If the demon was also invisible, it could be moving freely and in that case it would not have to stay within the illusion at all. It could reach out and make its own attacks, moving in ways that don't correspond to the illusion. In that case Displacement for defense and give it a bonus for making attacks. Bear in mind that Phantasm requires concentration to move so, even in this case, you either need a custom spell/item/ability or someone other than the demon maintaining the Phantasm.

You might rule that the illusion is constructed so the demon can see out, but no one can see in. In that case it's possible a character who melees with the creature (especially grapple) will see inside the illusion which might give them clues. Maybe they even see the demon in that case. Demons have pretty extensive sensory abilities though, e.g. darkvision, so it might just be dark in there.

I would allow mental spells to affect the demon normally. I don't think you need to know the precise location of the real head, just get the magic into the aura. If you want you could give an RR bonus though. I would definitely not give any penalty if they used some other spell to contact the demon first, e.g. Presence.

If you are making up a creature and giving it this as a unique ability, you've got some room to decide what will give the PCs an appropriate level of challenge, and you can tweak the modifiers, difficulties, etc however you think will work best. If it was a PC using the existing spell lists, I would enforce how all the spells work pretty tightly.
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Offline Ruffie

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Re: Illusion question
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2020, 02:50:34 PM »
Thank you for the reply. I will use the advice you give. I'm thinking it would be a custom/innate ability of a higher level demon in this case. After the first round of attacks they can make an RR to see if they can detect it as an illusion.