Official ICE Forums

Systems & Settings => HARP => Topic started by: Bruce on June 13, 2016, 06:41:35 PM

Title: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on June 13, 2016, 06:41:35 PM
This thread is intended solely for agreeing to the Non Disclosure Agreement listed below for an alternative to the HARP combat system. If you are interested in playtesting this alternative combat system for HARP please respond with an "I agree" reply. Please note that if you add other comments your "I agree" may be missed and unintentionally get passed over.


HARP Alternate Combat System NDA.

Unless stated otherwise, I may modify this PA at any time and the changes will become effective upon posting on this forum on the www.ironcrown website. Your continued participation in this playtesting of this non official combat system designed for HARP constitutes your acceptance of this PA, including any changes, variations or successor agreements that may be posted as noted above.
 
1. Ownership. Guild Companion Publications Ltd owns all right, title and interest in and to (a) the ideas, concepts, brands and products associated with HARP and Rolemaster. This combat system is not an official product of HARP. The copyright of all new elements devised and written by me are held by me (Bruce Meyer).
2. Eligibility. To be eligible to be a playtester for this combat system, you must have a current and valid ironcrown.com Account.

3. Playtest Materials. You may receive, download from the playtest thread, or otherwise have access to this alternative combat system for HARP as part of your participation in the evaluation of this system. I, Bruce Meyer, grant you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-assignable license for your personal use of such Playtest Materials solely for the purposes of playtesting the Playtest Materials and providing feedback to me regarding this Playtest combat system.

4. Feedback. You may provide feedback, thoughts, comments, ideas, questions and suggestions about this combat system for HARP on these forums and in particular in the playtest thread. You are solely responsible for any and all Feedback you provide and such Feedback will not violate the intellectual property rights of any third party.

5. Confidentiality. As part of your participation as a playtester in this combat system you will receive Playtest Materials that are proprietary and confidential to me, Bruce Meyer. You agree not to copy, excerpt, distribute (either in physical or digital format), publish, display, disseminate, release and/or transmit, in whole or in part, or create derivative materials from any Playtest Materials provided to you. You further agree that you will not use the Playtest Materials for your own benefit (other than to use it in your games for playtest) or to the benefit of any third party. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may publicly discuss your thoughts regarding this combat system designed for HARP and your playtesting experience.

That completes the Playtesting Agreement. After replying with "I agree" you will be granted access to a private forum dedicated to the playtesting of this alternative combat system for HARP. Please be patient in waiting for your access to be approved.

Thank you.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: darb on June 15, 2016, 10:10:28 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: RandalThor on June 16, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: sunwolf on June 16, 2016, 05:20:33 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Saturn830 on June 17, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on June 18, 2016, 08:30:30 PM
Anyone who has responded with their agreement should have access at this time.
If not, please PM me.


New people agreeing will be updated as I review (at least once per day)
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: WickedBar on June 20, 2016, 07:14:48 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Alwyn on June 20, 2016, 08:37:54 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: GuernseyMan on June 20, 2016, 04:56:12 PM
I agree

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on June 26, 2016, 02:43:06 PM
Please at least let me know if you were able to download the files once access was granted
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: tbigness on June 27, 2016, 11:46:29 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: darb on June 27, 2016, 07:50:45 PM
ok, we futzed around with it a bit last night.  I liked it, much more than I thought I would.  First off, I was skeptical because I thought that the one roll combat of HARP was a feature, but we have been playing GURPS and D&D lately, which is two roll anyway so it was fine.

We used the crit charts of RMU, and were basically just doing some simple character vs character combats, so no real tactics, terrain or interesting magic.  The characters were 3rd or 4th level, so moderate skill levels and no obtrusive objects.  We tend to be quite conservative with parry, so generally split evenly until some advantage.

I noticed that the additional effects (stun, - action, bleed, whatever) start a bit later on the chart than standard HARP and thought that maybe it would make combat a bit more of a grind.  It did, but in not at all a bad way.  Crits were exciting again, because they were not so very common.  It also smoothed out some of the death spiral effect one can get with the other methods (you get a stun and then the other guy all-outs on you and keeps you down).  The effect in the end was actually really good, especially with the RMU crits that also damped down on that effect as well.  As an aside, I used to think the very lethal nature of RM combat was great, and expected something like that with HARP, but now days I am not sure it is so great the way it works.  It is usually really random, a good roll one time will usually end the combat.  I like more lethal than D&D but not quite as random as RM.  This actually felt good, combat was tense but didn't have a feeling that your hero had a 10% chance of death with each roll.... Overall, it was considered a very good direction for HARP.  We had tried all the other systems and sort of got burned out on them.  It does make us (well, this is just me) think about dropping in more of RMU combat system, as far as armor types vs DB....

We liked it enough that we will put together an encounter or two with something and try it a bit more but right now it looks like it will be our system of choice if we come back to HARP.  Well done! 

Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Athelstaine on June 28, 2016, 04:35:53 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: sunwolf on June 29, 2016, 05:24:44 PM
Files downloaded OK, hope to get to do something with them soon
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: munchy on July 24, 2016, 03:22:27 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on July 27, 2016, 07:19:34 PM
Sorry for the delay.  Access added
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on July 27, 2016, 08:07:27 PM
Everyone that is gaining access to the files please note that there is a discussion board for this system in the child boards. Only those agreeing to the NDA have access to these discussion boards.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Tommi on August 07, 2016, 11:45:56 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: WoeRie on August 08, 2016, 10:54:42 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Evensnalgonel on August 19, 2016, 04:25:15 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: assur on September 03, 2016, 05:59:10 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: rusakus on September 05, 2016, 02:26:37 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Merkir on September 06, 2016, 07:09:57 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: daggertx on September 09, 2016, 02:44:17 PM
I agree


Thanks
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: pols88 on September 17, 2016, 08:18:02 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Sarah Peterson on September 17, 2016, 11:54:30 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Karizma on September 25, 2016, 08:48:30 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Merkir on September 26, 2016, 04:47:38 AM
I agree

I don't appear to have received access to the private forum yet?
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on September 26, 2016, 10:42:32 PM
I agree

I don't appear to have received access to the private forum yet?
I will let Thom know.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: ironfist on October 21, 2016, 08:09:34 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Merkir on October 21, 2016, 04:35:27 PM
I agree

I don't appear to have received access to the private forum yet?
I will let Thom know.

I've still not heard anything.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on October 30, 2016, 12:56:17 PM
I agree

I don't appear to have received access to the private forum yet?
I will let Thom know.

I've still not heard anything.
This is odd. I haven't heard anything back from him either on the PM I sent him. I will try contacting other people and see what they can do. I apologize for the wait on this.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: NicholasHMCaldwell on October 30, 2016, 03:34:44 PM
I cannot read PMs so if you've sent one to me, I cannot see it; also the PM system has been failing to send email alerts recently, so Thom may not have been alerted.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: kafka on October 31, 2016, 03:44:00 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on November 02, 2016, 09:41:26 PM
I cannot read PMs so if you've sent one to me, I cannot see it; also the PM system has been failing to send email alerts recently, so Thom may not have been alerted.

Best wishes,
Nicholas
Nicholas, Yes I did send a PM to you recently asking if there was a way I could grant people access to the private forum I run. If not is there anyway you can query Thom to have him run through this page and give those people access to the private forums who have agreed to the NDA?
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on November 05, 2016, 11:54:44 AM
I apologize to everyone and anyone trying to get access to my HARP Alternate combat system by agreeing to the NDA. I have been trying various methods to contact different people at ICE and nothing has worked so far. I hope to get everyone access soon. Thank you for your patience.

Bruce
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on November 05, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
My apologies as I neglected to monitor this thread.
I have now added everyone from Pols88 until now.

Merkir has had access since mid-September.
Here is a link to the board.
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=210.0
 (http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=210.0)

If you submitted an "I Agree" response, you should be able to follow that link into the board.
if you still can't access it, send me an email at thom-ice@hotmail.com
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Merkir on November 08, 2016, 02:09:45 AM
Merkir has had access since mid-September.
Here is a link to the board.
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=210.0
 (http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=210.0)

Really? Lol, I don't recall seeing a link before now. All good. Cheers.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Cthugha on November 20, 2016, 03:04:47 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: steelfury on December 04, 2016, 09:11:38 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: enoch on December 13, 2016, 11:39:24 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: shihonage on December 17, 2016, 11:29:40 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: GMLovlie on December 19, 2016, 06:06:03 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Alwyn on January 04, 2017, 10:58:20 AM
Removed my comments that I originally posted here and reposted in the appropriate place. 
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Jon Joe on February 21, 2017, 01:15:13 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: johniemi on February 28, 2017, 02:25:42 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Darksoup on February 28, 2017, 03:48:44 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on March 05, 2017, 06:20:11 AM
These are all updated.
You should have access to the alt rules board
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Jay on March 10, 2017, 01:34:57 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on March 11, 2017, 06:31:52 AM
Done
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Charlie Four on March 14, 2017, 09:17:47 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on March 14, 2017, 09:27:58 AM
access given
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Tywyll on March 18, 2017, 05:26:03 PM
I agree

Sent from my E6533 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: PGisKing on April 06, 2017, 09:25:41 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on April 08, 2017, 03:26:18 PM
Updated
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on April 08, 2017, 08:29:23 PM
Updated
Thanks for all the hard work Thom!
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on April 08, 2017, 09:07:07 PM
The hard work is the stuff keeping me from being on the boards as much as I want....
This stuff is easy to do, but just not enough time to do it right now.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on April 08, 2017, 09:08:58 PM
The hard work is the stuff keeping me from being on the boards as much as I want....
This stuff is easy to do, but just not enough time to do it right now.
Either way, you're doing hard work elsewhere which makes doing this difficult. I just wanted to let you know doing this is appreciated.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Mellowhappy on April 12, 2017, 03:57:32 PM
I agree. Thanks.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: hive_mind on April 13, 2017, 09:07:26 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on April 13, 2017, 09:19:57 PM
Done
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Midarc on June 19, 2017, 07:58:14 PM
I Agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: keslo on June 24, 2017, 05:24:35 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on June 24, 2017, 06:10:31 PM
Updates done
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: joel.lovell on June 28, 2017, 06:55:19 AM
I agree


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: movalmedic on July 04, 2017, 12:39:26 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on July 04, 2017, 10:02:30 PM
Updates done
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Harp4Ron on September 03, 2017, 08:08:08 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Peter R on September 03, 2017, 09:13:16 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Chris Seal on September 04, 2017, 03:46:31 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on September 04, 2017, 07:24:55 AM
All 3 should be set up now for access
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on September 04, 2017, 12:51:15 PM
Thank you for your hard work and diligence Thom, it is greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: hessehorst on September 21, 2017, 07:13:18 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: munchy on October 02, 2017, 09:59:52 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Caledonia on October 03, 2017, 05:38:18 PM
I Agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: dren77 on October 14, 2017, 05:00:45 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Ika on October 21, 2017, 05:23:47 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Samzagas on April 22, 2018, 11:55:19 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Felros on September 23, 2018, 01:03:38 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on September 23, 2018, 01:23:55 PM
Updated
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: ImaginosMusic on October 23, 2018, 11:11:00 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: -Dain- on October 29, 2018, 01:25:03 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Jlc3721 on December 08, 2018, 07:55:26 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on December 08, 2018, 08:18:45 AM
Updated
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: JohnnyR on December 22, 2018, 11:15:37 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Kirsa on December 24, 2018, 07:28:20 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: cgaWolf on January 17, 2019, 02:18:28 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: luzbel on February 11, 2019, 07:59:01 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: morganor on March 04, 2019, 06:10:49 PM
i agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: piersb on March 19, 2019, 08:15:28 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Hobo on March 24, 2019, 06:01:37 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on April 13, 2019, 07:54:32 AM
All should now have access

Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Hobo on April 15, 2019, 11:29:42 AM
Thanks! But where do I find it?
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Thom @ ICE on April 15, 2019, 11:40:58 AM
Within the HARP folder it is a subfolder at the top.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: catmorbid on May 10, 2019, 09:20:40 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Widukind on May 17, 2019, 06:44:42 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: OdinsOneGoodEye on July 11, 2019, 08:38:09 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Ylissa on November 11, 2019, 10:25:20 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: regius on January 07, 2020, 02:02:11 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: menerst on January 17, 2020, 05:08:05 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Ariok on February 18, 2020, 01:02:51 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: madmathman on June 19, 2020, 03:50:38 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Minneyar on August 23, 2020, 06:51:35 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: kenbert on June 22, 2021, 03:22:22 AM
I agree (I hope this is still on going)
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: pantsorama on June 22, 2021, 08:56:38 AM
I agree (I hope this is still on going)

I agree (to both statements)
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: dranthor on July 03, 2021, 10:18:45 PM
i agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: joel.lovell on July 10, 2021, 08:06:50 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: rudolpht on September 01, 2021, 07:16:30 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: LawrenceToo on October 07, 2021, 03:07:10 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: drk84 on January 28, 2022, 12:53:05 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Ecthelion on January 31, 2022, 11:47:37 AM
This thread is now almost 6 years old. Is the announced alternate combat system still in testing? Otherwise I'd suggest to close this thread. Not sure whether NDA agreements still make sense.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: kenbert on April 14, 2022, 09:10:49 PM
I’m guessing this is a dead duck.  I was never added to the play test forum after requesting to do so….
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on September 13, 2022, 08:25:20 PM
This thread is now almost 6 years old. Is the announced alternate combat system still in testing? Otherwise I'd suggest to close this thread. Not sure whether NDA agreements still make sense.
Has it been 6 years already? Time has really flown by in the last 3 years.
Unfortunately it is in standby until I can get another game up and running. The last 2 years+ have been hectic and gaming in my area has essentially come to a standstill unless you play either 5E or PF.
Once you agree to the NDA thread it gives you access to the files. If you have done some playtesting and have some feedback that may help me in development in this then please do so in the unlocked threads.
Otherwise I have to wait to get some real playtesting done once I get a new group going again, hopefully this fall.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on September 13, 2022, 08:26:00 PM
I’m guessing this is a dead duck.  I was never added to the play test forum after requesting to do so….
I will contact the moderator about adding you.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: ImaginosMusic on December 11, 2022, 08:01:24 PM
Still Agreeing, never added.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Bruce on December 13, 2022, 07:39:47 PM
Still Agreeing, never added.
I will try and contact one of the moderators to see if they can approve it.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Barner Cobblewood on January 25, 2023, 10:41:50 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: runeblade on February 15, 2023, 12:47:24 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: junkkoroba on April 01, 2023, 11:13:43 AM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Voidhop on April 09, 2023, 10:12:23 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Barner Cobblewood on April 10, 2023, 09:52:40 AM
Hi so I agreed in late January, and have heard nothing. How do I get access to the files?
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: GrumpyOldFart on April 10, 2023, 01:05:28 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: TimC on April 17, 2023, 08:14:59 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: GuernseyMan on June 22, 2023, 05:29:14 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Luxferre on July 15, 2023, 12:03:39 PM
Late to the party - but "I agree"  ;D
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: iggy42 on October 14, 2023, 05:53:15 PM
I agree
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Barner Cobblewood on October 17, 2023, 09:25:32 AM
Hi, I replied quite some time ago, but have not yet been granted access. Has anyone been able to access the alternate system in say the last year? Thanks, BC
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: TimC on October 19, 2023, 01:11:22 PM
Hi, I replied quite some time ago, but have not yet been granted access. Has anyone been able to access the alternate system in say the last year? Thanks, BC
Wondering about that myself.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: ImaginosMusic on October 19, 2023, 05:18:32 PM
Hi, I replied quite some time ago, but have not yet been granted access. Has anyone been able to access the alternate system in say the last year? Thanks, BC
Wondering about that myself.

I agreed on October 23, 2018. I have given up.
Title: Re: HARP alternate combat system NDA
Post by: Barner Cobblewood on October 20, 2023, 07:39:09 AM
Hi Nicholas, Maybe you should lock this thread. If no one is getting the chance to playtest the beta rules, I suggest that it may generate ill-will towards the product. Best, BC