Topic: Maxing out weapon charts

[Joshua24601]

I'm SURE this one's been discussed before, but my search yielded nothing.

I was curious how you guys dealt with rolls that went over th max for weapon charts.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I have seen/heard of several ways of resolving this...

1) Once you hit 150, start at the bottom of the chart and work your way back up (i.e. a result of 275 == a 150 result and a 125 result added together).

2) Ignore everything over 150. (not a lot of fun there... hehe)

3) Every 10 points over 150 gives an extra hit of damage. Every 30 (or 50, different GMs have used different values) points above also gives an addition increase to the critical (i.e. F == E + A, G == E + B, etc).

4) Every 5 or 10 points over 150 adds +1 to the critical roll.. (i.e. increases the chance of maxing out on the critical...)

[RandalThor]

In the past I have used the "roll-over" rule (#1 on Rasyr's lists), but I think I am going to go with something like #4. Only I will go with either 10 or 20 points over, probably 10. Rounding down (69 over is a +6 to the crit roll). Maybe combine it with #3 and add extra base hits. I will test it out during my next session (in 4-5 days) and let you know how it goes.

[Fornitus]

 We have always used the chart in RM Comp I pg 64.

Basicaly, increase the crit. However we dont start that chart till 200.
ie. 201 is an EA krush or such.
Also, Always use only ONE roll for all crits from a single attack. That way you get consistant body areas affected. Results just stack.

 This works very well for us as we alow crit adjustment (before attack) by removing one skill rank for each +1 to the crit roll. (if you get one)

Both posibilities are covered this way.

[yammahoper]

I use #1.

lynn

[David Johansen]

hmmm...I always thought it was just like maximum results on any other attack table...that sword's only four feet long, there's only so much of it that can be stuck inside the other guy...

[RandalThor]

Also, Always use only ONE roll for all crits from a single attack. That way you get consistant body areas affected. Results just stack.

I definately agree with this. Not only does it cut down on time, it does give you consistent hit locations.

[PiXeL01]

We changed a little in our group from time to time. We started using #3, then went to #1 before just saying that any roll above 150 was wasted, which is what we have been doing the past few years.
I think one of the reasons was we only playing a few times each year and everyone forgot from time to time how to do it.

[Fornitus]

hmmm...I always thought it was just like maximum results on any other attack table...that sword's only four feet long, there's only so much of it that can be stuck inside the other guy...

Using the extra crit with same roll allows some cool results....

 Now, instead of just hitting your opponent in the armpit and killing him with his own ribs, you also ...
 Hit opponent in Arm, crushing bone and sending broken shards into targets armpit where they destroy a variaty of organs.

or

 Slice through arm at wrist severs hand, follow through also guts poor sucker. Target drops an expires with haste. +15 to next action and +10 to next inish.

[yammahoper]

I use to roll seperate crits assuming seperate strikes, though a flaming sword has always been "both crits same roll".

On wrap around, I still roll crits seperately.

lynn

[vroomfogle]

I've used a couple of the methods above: the wrap-around attack chart, and increased severity/multiple severity crits.   Depending on the method used you can interpret what it means differently.  Remember that RM Combat is a series of strikes/hits/blows but only one is considered to have a chance

When using the wrap-around attack charts, I consider attacks above 150 (I use the wrap-around chart rule) to be multiple hits.    i.e. Really high rolls means more then one hit was successful.

When using the increased severity or multiple crit rule (every 30 pts above 150 increase severity by 1, or add additional crit once you hit E) I consider it super-150 hits to be just really awesome strikes and in this case you'd probably want to use the same roll.


I've pretty much ended up on the wrap-around attack chart method, our group likes that one the best.

So to decide which rule to use yourself first decide on what a super-150 hit really means.  Does it mean a super severe strike or does it mean multiple hits?

[Joshua24601]

I kinda like Vroomfongle's thought process...

A melee attack is supposed to be swinging, jabbing and striking over the 10 second round.  You roll to see if your successful with one of these, however if you roll over 150, you may be successful at landing two blows during those 10 seconds (without the assist of haste)

The strength of any given blow is described by the weapon chart, but the severity is described by the crit. Thus a double open-ended 250 attack roll could me 2 or even 3 hits on the target, and while at least 2 of them landed pretty soundly, they aren't necessarily all severe blows... that's for the crits to decide.

I am however troubled, because I think that a higher level warrior should find it easier to land killing blows then a lower level warrior (more-so then is reflected in the difference between an A and an E crit)

Here's a thought:.. An all out murderous attack.  This haymaker of blows could have to land in the deliberate phase, with no parrying allowed, further it would be somewhat obvious, giving the opponent a situational awareness roll, to see it coming and decide to abort actions and escape the blow, since the PC's not jabbing, and slashing, but rather winding up the opponent might not be a need to 'break from melee', there may have to be some sort of a speed contest though.. Finally, when swinging, the PC would declare how much of his OB he's sacrificing for raw power.  Assuming a crit lands, every 10 OB sacrificed moves the crit down a box on the table.

This kind of steps on the ambush skill (since anyone could do this when surprising someone), but I always thought ambush was overpriced and mostly unnecessary.  If you sneak up on someone and are competent with your weapon, you should be able to effectively put it in the back of their skull without any additional skills.

Thoughts?

[Joshua24601]

I thought of an issue with the rolling the number above 150, considering it multiple hits in one round.

Ranged attacks... 
Obviously an arrow can't hit once, then turn around and hit again. 

This issue could just be ignored and written off to a "game mechanics vs. reality" compromise. 
Or alternatively it could mean that the PC lets the arrow/spell fly more quickly then normal, and results with the PC using less time, giving the PC a rebate on their activity % used.  (allowing an archer for example to draw another arrow, and not get hit with the minus the next round..)
Or ranged attacks could be treated differently then melee attacks... and over maxing a ranged hit adds damage rather then an extra strike.

[vroomfogle]

If I recall correctly a fellow on this board a while back, pemerton, had a House Rule that allows a trade of -2 OB for every +1 to the critical roll.  While it seemed overpowered he claimed, after using it extensively, that it was not nearly as overpowered as it sounded.   It actually sounds very close to what you suggest using "boxes" as each box is about a range of 5.

I have not yet tried such a thing myself but I'd probably start off with something a bit higher such as -5 OB/+1 critical, but without any further limitations such as the phase or allowing the target to escape.

I am however troubled, because I think that a higher level warrior should find it easier to land killing blows then a lower level warrior (more-so then is reflected in the difference between an A and an E crit)

I think this is the case no matter what rule you use.   A higher level warrior will have a higher OB, and thus on average higher severity criticals and a greater chance to break 150.    An individual critical roll does not favor the higher level warrior that's for sure but he certainly gets more critical rolls (and more severe ones) over the course of the battle.

Another thing to do is to give a bonus to the crit roll based on ranks in the weapon such as +1 every 10 ranks.   This favors fighters of course who will have higher ranks but also will give additional incentive to anyone to train the weapon above 30 Ranks (as the +1/2/rank bonus is not enough IMO).

[vroomfogle]

I thought of an issue with the rolling the number above 150, considering it multiple hits in one round.

Ranged attacks... 
Obviously an arrow can't hit once, then turn around and hit again. 

This issue could just be ignored and written off to a "game mechanics vs. reality" compromise. 
Or alternatively it could mean that the PC lets the arrow/spell fly more quickly then normal, and results with the PC using less time, giving the PC a rebate on their activity % used.  (allowing an archer for example to draw another arrow, and not get hit with the minus the next round..)
Or ranged attacks could be treated differently then melee attacks... and over maxing a ranged hit adds damage rather then an extra strike.

Good point, the breaking 150 rule really only makes sense in melee.   I guess this hasn't come up recently for us as my groups main weapons tend to be melee based. 

I think I'd probably use a different mechanism, such as additional crit for every 30 above.  This would mean no extra hits for ranged weapons, which I think is fine, just an additional critical.  I'd lean toward different roll for the critical too, even though the explanation of a single serious hit would suggest same roll.  Perhaps adjust critical description so that all crits effect the same body part.

[Joshua24601]

Humm... perhaps rather then trading OB for better crits you could trade skill ranks for better crits.
For each rank (or two) you give up you get +1 to your crit roll.

This would benefit the high level warrior because the ranks he'd be giving up would be worth less OB (above 10th or 20th ranks) compared to the ranks being given up by lower level fighters.
It would also mean a PC would have to have training in the weapon in order to get higher crits.  (he couldn't just pick up a dagger and use a high 1-h edged category bonus)

[Fornitus]

 As mentioned above

[Joshua24601]

Quite right.. My idea was so unoriginal it was already posted.. on this thread..

However I was thinking in the context of my "All Out Attack"...

[Fornitus]

 For suicidal all out attacks we allow the DB from Quickness to be converted to OB. Thats about all we allow.

 The same crit/one hit is about the only thing that makes sense for arrows. Just pin their hand to their chest. Resolution of 2 crits with 1 roll.
We use this for melee also beacuse we realy dont need any more rules to try to rember.

[Joshua24601]

Humm.. Rulemaster, Rolemaster, Rulemaster, Rolemaster... which to play....