Topic: Swords that shoot firebolts

[markc]

Welcome to the ICE Forums Ahammer.
MDC

[ahammer]

thanks.. im a noob when it come to rolemaster. I did never have anyone that played back in the day.
I did play a bit of merps(is this the not rolemaster when people say that around here?).  
trying to run a play by wave copy of rolemaster classic right now with my wow guild.. but it is not looking like it going to take off.

got the rolemaster frp around here. that and the shadow world(look what I have read of it so far) books are on my list to read after that.
 I will be posting some ideas about where I think rolemaster should go. (I did buy harp but did not like it).

[Dark Schneider]

The sword is assumed to have ranks in directed spell equal to the highest level of spell needed to make the sword.

That is right, if you have greater OB with your own skill you use the higher one, but for non-DS users it is usually the OB used.

[Nders]

You could, if you are using combat companion, interchange your fighters' base line costs exchanging for example his cost for martial arts with his cost for directed spells. This would allow him to develop a relatively cheap directed spells skill, should he ever come across an item with the power to cast directed spells. When using CC even without exchanging any costs you would still end at a directed spell cost of 6/12. (6 being the base line with a point score of 4)
So if you're not using CC: start doing so!

If you for some reason do not care for CC you could apply the cost from the inate ranged attack table in EA#11 (which can be bought cheap at the ICE home page)

The above Rule from treasure companion is a RMFRP/RMSS rule and besides from it being excessively powerful you might not want to use it if playing RMC.

Another question though: which level bonus would you apply?

[yammahoper]

The sword is assumed to have ranks in directed spell equal to the highest level of spell needed to make the sword.

That is right, if you have greater OB with your own skill you use the higher one, but for non-DS users it is usually the OB used.

I dont allow a caster to ever use his own skill ranks when casting spells from an item, be it a BAR or EAR.

Such items are very nice for low level spell  users and non spell users.  For example, a daily three shock bolt requires about an 8th level spell.  8 ranks is a +24 bonus, which far surpases most starting spell users and all levels of non spell users. 

OTOH, REALLY powerful items, like a daily X firebolt, require devine magic and ften spells above level 30 to make.  Your standard level 110 artifact would cast that firebolt with a bonus of +100!!! 

[Nders]

8 ranks is a +24 bonus

This is only true for RMFRP/RMSS. In RMC it would be 8 ranks = 40 bonus.

Personally I would never allow items to have their own directed spell skill unless they were imbued with intelligence and even then never let them have more ranks than the maximum possible for that level of intelligence. (This may be different for RMFRP)
Using the skill of the item raises other problems as well:
1) Which level bonus does the item have? (magician if the spell is from a magician base, astrologer if taken from an astrologer base?).
2) What is the agility stat of the item?
3) If it is an item attacking with RR spells, what is the BAR of the item?  (magician if the spell is from a magician base, astrologer if taken from an astrologer base?).
4) If using CC, What is the style of the item? (Based on the imbedders abilities, based on the caster of the spells ability, dependent on intelligence?)
5) What about daily scrolls? Do they use the directed ranks of the scrolls level or do you use your own skill when using daily items, if it is a scroll?

When answering all of the above questions I would look to the intelligence of the item and if it had none I would use the skills of the wielder. I would probably allow the users skill to be applied if it was greater even if the item had intelligence unless there is a conflict of interest (Will) between the user and the item.

[Dark Schneider]

8 ranks is a +24 bonus
This is only true for RMFRP/RMSS. In RMC it would be 8 ranks = 40 bonus.

Ops, I forgot to mention, that rule is only for RMSS/RMFRP, it is mentioned in RMFRP Treasure Companion. If you use RM2 (it is deprecated people) then you should find a solution by house rules.

See that the rule is intended to use with the RMFRP rank bonus system, if you use it with RM2 you overpower the items.

An easy solution is to use the RMFRP rank bonus system for items, even if you use RM2.

I dont allow a caster to ever use his own skill ranks when casting spells from an item, be it a BAR or EAR.

Why not?, for BAR I am agree because is the item which cast the spell, in the case of DS the item cast the spell but is the user who aim, the rule of item has its own bonus is to help non-DS users as it is known that they will not have bonus, or because there is a skill for each DS so it is very probable user will not have any rank on it.

[Fidoric]

I would say that an item would require both intellingence and perception to develop any offensive skill.

[pastaav]

Such items are very nice for low level spell  users and non spell users.  For example, a daily three shock bolt requires about an 8th level spell.  8 ranks is a +24 bonus, which far surpases most starting spell

Are you using a houserule?

The reason I ask is that if I recall correctly the 8 ranks would give +16 bonus since the TC rule is that you use the category progression for directed spells from an magic item.

[kevinmccollum]

There is no way in heck I would change the cost for directed spells for a fighter simply because the sword/weapon he is using has one imbeded in it and "fighters are great at using weapons". That opens a whole can or worms. Nor would I lower the cost of weapon development on a weapon because it had a stored/daily directed spell. the fighter might be great at using her weapon but still suck at shooting a bolt out of it.

[pastaav]

There is no way in heck I would change the cost for directed spells for a fighter simply because the sword/weapon he is using has one imbeded in it and "fighters are great at using weapons". That opens a whole can or worms. Nor would I lower the cost of weapon development on a weapon because it had a stored/daily directed spell. the fighter might be great at using her weapon but still suck at shooting a bolt out of it.

When I was talking earlier about changing the directed spell cost I meant it for all items. I agree that the form used to contain the spell should not matter.

Basically it boils down into that if you think "Directed spell" as "aiming" then the attack is very much an weapon that the fighter should be good at. If you don't agree with this thought but instead think directed spell means to look at the aura of the defender and make the bolt hit a weak spot or something similar then you won't view it as a "weapon skill". Personally I like the aiming approach since I else can not see why the skill only apply to bolts and not all spells.

BTW I would like adjust what I said in my previous post...when I wrote that I somehow suffered from the delusion that directed spells could be found in power manipulation. A few days perspective has made me realize that directed spells has its own category so you can simply change the cost of the category. My suggested move to Athletic Brawn might be good anyway if you want to unify aiming elemental bolts and aiming when throwing balls and similar...but that is a different story.

[yammahoper]

Firing off a firebolt from a wand is imo like firing a gun.  It has a certain ammount of inheirent energy based on the caliber/foot pounds of energy coming out the muzzle.  This is what the inherient bonus represents.  PC's can add their catagory bonus, or in the case of RM2, AG bonus.  This represents their natural ability to shoot with accuracy.

[Nortti]

In our games we treat Directed Spells -skill as ability to make a more devastating bolt and as some capability to guide that bolt. Without any control of the bolt during flight it would be very difficult to hit moving targets in combat.

A total beginner would be able to launch a bolt and it would fly directly forward. 

Advanced caster can make a larger, faster, hotter bolt and can adjust its direction a bit during flight.

A master caster can create an extremely hot bolt and can guide this fast-flying missile mentally to its target with precision.
 
If the bolt comes from an item and caster doesnt need to concentrate elemental energy or control the bolt during flight the whole thing becomes more of a technical affair. You just aim and trigger like with an x-bow. Strength of the bolt depends on the item. You cannot guide it during flight.

I think that there is a certain limit to the effectiveness of such bolt as you cannot guide it. To keep a balance in the game I  like to keep item-launched bolts at basic level. Aforementioned 20-30 sounds good to me. We use a command-word to trigger this kind of items. Magic-user that knows the item needs to give a short training for the realm of arms -user.

(One change to the rules that we have made is that we have increased ranges in the spell law from feet to meters. Works for us.)