Do Vambraces Impose Ranged Penalties on Directed Spells?

JDale's advice is no, they should not.

Discussion from ICE official RMU Discord Channel

[12:33 PM]Wednesday, April 22, 2026 12:33 PMAmano: Do ranged penalties from vambraces apply to directed spells -bolts?

I seem to remember a discussion about this but can't find it and don't recall the outcome.

[2:39 PM]Wednesday, April 22, 2026 2:39 PMjdale: Core Law section 7.2 says "Vambraces (arm protection) also give penalties to ranged weapon attacks". The penalty is also noted in the preceding section about ranged weapons. Sections 9.1 and 9.2 separate ranged attacks from directed spells. My inclination would be to say no, directed spells are not ranged weapons and the penalty does not apply.

You might still be receiving a penalty on your SCR, of course, depending on your realm.

Quote

Quotep.159     
All Guardian elementals have attack sequence leading to a ball attack but neither of these talents appear in their talent lists. Do they have these as hidden talents?

After a successful grapple, in the following round you suffer the effect of their aura of elemental explosion.

Sorry, but this still doesn't seem right to me.

Any combatant in melee range is necessarily within the 17'R aura and will therefore be subject to the aura's ball attacks. We don't need an attack sequence ball attack to remind us that a grappled opponent will be subject to the aura's ball attacks. Further, the attack sequence ball attacks are all size small, whereas the aura, elemental explosion ball attacks include size tiny and medium.

I don't think elemental guardians need an attack sequence ball attack, and they don't appear to have the talents for it, so it should be removed.

Quote from: Amano on April 20, 2026, 05:10:23 PM2.    True Elementals: Suggestions for revision.

p.34       
Elemental Volatility: please define area of effect and size of attack for each element.

Area of effect is just the target (who got rammed). The size is the size of the elemental (which, since this only applies to elemental servant, is small).

Quotep.47       
Life sense states a range of 5' per tier. It should be 5'/lvl per tier.

I'll have to check the intent there. I do see the stat blocks indicate the latter.

Quotep.142       
"If we go against the direction of the arrow, we find which element it is boon to." Attacks in this direction are still damaging. How is it a boon? This sentence should be removed.

I think you're over-reading. I like bread, it's overall beneficial for me, but if you hit me with a baguette it still hurts. More so if you launch it out of a cannon like a bread bolt.

Quotep.143       
"or they shoot bolts of their element, with a range of <1'>/lvl." As none of the true elementals have this ability, this reference should be removed.

Previously noted.

Quotep.144-150   
All petty elementals are 18" or 30". This seems a bit short and diverges significantly from the 4' suggested for grade II on p.143. Whereas the weak and strong elementals are 6' and 20', as suggested for grade III and VI.

And Grade I = elemental servant which is 1"-1'. So those could be corrected.

Quotep.144-150   
Elemental internals in the talent lists is given in the format e.g. Elemental internals I [Earth, Attack, A]. I am not sure what "Attack" signifies. [Earth, Impact, A] or simply [Impact, A] would be more informative.

It just means it applies to any of their attacks. In principle such a talent might only apply to one.

Quotep.145       
The weak and strong fire elementals have their stat bonuses and talent lists swapped with each other.

Previously noted.

Quotep.150       
The first paragraph, detailing which elementals feature in which book, would be better placed in the introduction.

Post-layout restructuring generally isn't going to happen. There would need to be an overwhelming reason why the current layout actively impedes play. If it's not crossing that bar, it's not worth creating the kinds of secondary errors that such changes risk.

Quotep.150-153   
Elemental guardians are listed as having an SCR of 69. Unless they have hidden talents giving them +37, I think their SCR should be 32 (17+10+5).

You're probably correct.

Quotep.158-159   
The skills listed for elementals do not adequately reflect their archetypes e.g. stealth archetypes have no stalk skill, all elementals of the same grade have the same number of ranks in ambush, etc.

Archetypes mainly affect the stat bonuses here. Any given skill gets ranks assigned based on whether it is designated as primary, secondary, or other (aside from OB skills), that doesn't come automatically out of the archetype. There's an argument the stealth ones should have stalking added though.

Quotep.159       
Guardian, earth elemental is listed with AT 1, should be AT 7.

And Ice should be AT 4 now that you mention it.

Quotep.159       
All Guardian elementals are listed with DB 40, barring hidden talents it should be DB 0.

I have to check on the intent there.

Quotep.159       
The table should list separate AT, DB and movement skill for the non-flying elemental servants.

There isn't room in the table for 5 more rows. At best, any given stat would be replaced by "varies".

Quotep.159       
The size at which elemental servants and elemental guardians receive attacks should deviate with element type like it does for the other elementals.

Or conversely, the other elementals should not deviate. Not sure about that.

QuoteThe only creature with this talent is the Elemental Servant, which is class I. The other elements have significant elemental attacks without blowing themselves up, but servants are so weak that it ends them. I would treat it as only affecting the target, not having a radius. It's "resolved as" a ball attack, but there are other attacks resolved that way without exploding (e.g., various cold ball attacks from draining life energy)

They really aren't that weak. They have a decent ram attack with an additional critical from elemental internals I. Proof weapon II (except magic) really helps them out too.

Is the ball attack small (rheir size) or does it vary with element? If so how?

QuoteThey all appear to match, except the ball attacks which are their own thing? Not sure what you are seeing here.

I am referring to the Roman numerals in the size/crit column of the table, which denote the creatures effective size when receiving attacks.

Further to my above posts, I have changed my mind about proof weapon II (except magic). At best they should have proof weapon I (except magic and elements) otherwise they can't cause criticals to each other and elemental vulnerability only works with magical elemental attacks. It would probably be best to remove proof weapon entirely for all of them.

Quote from: Amano on April 20, 2026, 05:01:05 PMCreature Law (Modified Version: August 18, 2025 5:48PM)

1.    True Elementals: Questions

p.34       
Does elemental volatility only effect the target of the ram attack or does it produce an actual ball effect? If so, what is the area of effect? What is the size of the ball attack for each element?

The only creature with this talent is the Elemental Servant, which is class I. The other elements have significant elemental attacks without blowing themselves up, but servants are so weak that it ends them. I would treat it as only affecting the target, not having a radius. It's "resolved as" a ball attack, but there are other attacks resolved that way without exploding (e.g., various cold ball attacks from draining life energy).

Quotep.142       
The boxed text includes instructions on which attack and critical tables should be used for the bolt, cone and ball attacks of each element. However, the descriptions of aura, elemental explosion (e.g. tiny lightning ball) and elemental volatility (e.g. cold ball with krush criticals for air elementals), as well as the Guardian elemental's attack sequence ball attacks (all size S), contradict these instructions. As these are the only innate abilities producing bolt, cone or ball attacks that true elementals possess, I question if this contradictory section should exist at all?

I am curious what the intent was though. Was it that all innate elemental bolts, cones and balls were of a standard size, like we have for spell effects?

Bolts and balls are, by design, not equal. In the spells, that's important in order to create a progression of more powerful spells at higher levels. For elemental creatures, that's not ideal because elements are not intended to be more or less powerful than each other.

Quotep.143
"controlled and mastered elementals will remain for as long as they are bound." This seems incompatible with elemental incohesion. How should this conflict be resolved?

If there's a spell that specifies a duration (e.g., a spell that controls or masters elementals), then that spell takes precedence. Assume the spell is providing any necessary power to make its effect possible. Just as with any spell doing a thing that does not happen naturally. That's what magic is for.

Quotep.158-159   
According to the combat stat block table, many elementals receive attacks at a size different to their own. Do they have hidden talents effecting these changes?

They all appear to match, except the ball attacks which are their own thing? Not sure what you are seeing here.

Quotep.159       
All Guardian elementals have attack sequence leading to a ball attack but neither of these talents appear in their talent lists. Do they have these as hidden talents?

After a successful grapple, in the following round you suffer the effect of their aura of elemental explosion.

Usually the cost was one to three NPCs from the group...

Their valiant effort helping to aquire that dragon horde will not go without rerembrace!

I only played with 1st edition arms law but it did have separate holy criticals?
I think they could be used even if the creatures in question aren't "large " per se?

If you hit skeleton to head with a club, there might be nothing inside to get stunned but GM could say that it stubles back a bit for same effect?

Thanks for the info.

Quote from: jdale on April 19, 2026, 07:48:11 PMAll the ideas and setting material would be applicable, and you could use the equipment tables. You would need to rework the skill lists and professions, decide how to handle the talents, and make some other adjustments to the game mechanics. It would be much easier than trying to set up a Steampunk campaign in RM from scratch though.

Thanks for checking, @Colin-ICE. The spam keeps on coming. I'm a bit less busy right now, so able to hopefully keep up for a while.

4.    True Elementals: Other oddities and potential missteps (that I am largely ambivalent about)

Standard fire elementals are denied the unbreathing talent, which all other elementals have (including fire guardians and fire servants). I assume this is because fire needs oxygen and some oxygen depleting spells reduce the effectiveness of elemental fire attacks. I think this is better explained by the lack of oxygen affecting the fire caused by the elemental fire, rather than the elemental fire itself. Not all fire requires oxygen. Elemental fire should be considered something more akin to nuclear fusion and standard fire elementals should get the unbreathing talent.

All of the strong (VI) elementals have some kind of weakness or reduced potency. Some of these weaknesses seem kind of arbitrary e.g. all strong earth and ice elementals have developed a weak spot? While other seem a little unfair e.g. strong water elementals get additional critical -2 tiers, elemental internals -1 tier, elemental vulnerability +1 tier (as compared to other strong elementals).

Many elementals have footwork skill far in excess of what they might need given their current maximum pace.


p.s. Despite the criticisms outlined in the above posts I do appreciate that elementals needed to be toned down from beta and I actually really like the petty and weak earth elementals and look forward to using them.

p.p.s. I have not looked at any of the elemental creatures.