Topic: War Law Question

[Skaran]

I'm trying to work out an army size of a nation. It has an area of 32,000 square miles and a total population of around 1.2 million. The nation has a standing professional army, but of what size?

The chart in War Law for recruiting has figures for new recruits based on the density of the population, (Sparse, Medium or Dense) which sounds fine except what density of population does this nation have? And how can I determine its original standing army in a consistant manner since I will also have to do all of its neighbours.

If I set a base percentage of the population in the army I get 12,000 per percent point, what would a typical percentage for an early to mid iron age culture be bearing in mind this one has a regular army. Any ideas?

[David Johansen]

Well, for the standing army you're probably no higher than 10%.  Each farmer doesn't produce that much excess to pass on up, also you've got the old and young and women to leave out.

Besides 10% is a nice clean figure.

If it's a large area with a variety of terrain types it's probably averaging out to medium population density.  Stepes, deserts and mountains would be low, while fertile farm land would be high.

There's a fair bit of information of this type in Castles and Ruins.

[Nders]

Agreed 10% is a very fair estimate.

[Mungo]

10% seems yery high to me. Standing army means not only people but also equipment,...

So for a nation of 1.2 M I would estimate nothing bigger than 30k for the standing army. But there would be veterans all around, so most likely they could triple or quadruple the number in case of a war without loosing much of quality.


BR Juergen

[Skaran]

So say about 3% in the standing armed forces ie around 36,000 (which would include the nations small navy) plus about twice that, some 72,000 representing retired veterans, untrained recruits, militia etc as a sort of strategic reserve. So 9-10% total abailable for defence of the realm but only a third for "overseas" adventures.

How does that sound?

[Mungo]

Ok.

I also would say that any army involved in oversea adventures comprises to 1/3rd of regulars and the rest is drawn from the "72,000 representing retired veterans, untrained recruits, militia etc ". Otherwise the risk to the country becomes too big and also for longer stays you need tropps you can rotate.

BR Juergen

[Nders]

I think that compared to historical nations those numbers seem very low.

[Mungo]

The late Roman empires army is estimated as about 375k people. The population of the Roman empire under Augustus (about 400 yearsearlier) is 56M people.

Prussia in 1786 had 5.6M inhabitants and about 193k soldiers.

So I think it looks ok.

Don't forget that in pre-modern societies a large number of people (I would say at least 70 but more likely 80%) had to work in the fields otherwise everyone would starve. So an army that covers 10% of the population simply does not work when considering they had wives and children and therefore actually keep >20% of the population away from agricultural work.

BR Juergen

[Nders]

The late Roman empires army is estimated as about 375k people. The population of the Roman empire under Augustus (about 400 yearsearlier) is 56M people.

But you forget that very few of these people were eligible for the actual army and that if you wish to get a realistic estimate you would have to look up the specific configuration of the nation in question.

[Skaran]

Ok.

I also would say that any army involved in oversea adventures comprises to 1/3rd of regulars and the rest is drawn from the "72,000 representing retired veterans, untrained recruits, militia etc ". Otherwise the risk to the country becomes too big and also for longer stays you need tropps you can rotate.

BR Juergen

This sounds reasonable to me. It would be a great drain on a small nation such as this one to even maintain a permanent army but that is what it is currently doing. (It has irksome neighbours). So when the nation has to "visit" a neighbour it sends about a third of its regulars and calls up whatever proportion of reserved it thinks necessary to pad out the visiting team and boost home defences.

[Mungo]

The late Roman empires army is estimated as about 375k people. The population of the Roman empire under Augustus (about 400 yearsearlier) is 56M people.

But you forget that very few of these people were eligible for the actual army and that if you wish to get a realistic estimate you would have to look up the specific configuration of the nation in question.

The Roman reference is difficult so perhaps we should forget it. But the Prussian one I think is very relevant and I guess also quite accurate. And it show the Army was 3.4 % of the overall population.

BR Juergen

[Nders]

I sadly have to agree which is why I mentioned nothing of it im my arguement

[Mungo]

You got a laugh point, though. (as there are no sly points)

BR Juergen

[markc]

 You also might want to look at early Greece as an example of small land area or a island nation.
MDC