Topic: Elemental (E) Spells

[Aotrs Commander]

This may seem like an odd question to ask after nearly twenty years of playing the game, but we've never really had very high level spellcasters, even when we've been playing fantasy and not Spacemaster. This is compounded by the fact I started playing at eleven and so never really got to the grips with the subtleties of the magic system and just sort of muddled through in later years. Now we've got an Archmage whose not had 20-odd years of Rolemaster experience and with RMC especially I realise that we've not been doing spells quite right and I've had to do a bit of careful re-reading.

In particular, I'm having difficultly nailing down E spells. Elemental Attack/Ball spells I get, Force spells (i.e Base Attack Spells), Defense, Healing, Utility etc etc. However, Elemental, while in the key, is not described in the text of (RMC) Spell Law - it goes straight from defensive to force.

Now, pretty much for the last umpteen twiddly yonks we've just been treated such spells as creating the element in a real sense (like it says in the key). I.e. Wall of Fire is real, actual fire and you don't get an RR if you walk through it, same as if you walk through a bonfire. (This is, at least, right, I know). But what about, say Stun Cloud? Should you get an RR for that? Or is it, as I have been doing, something you can't avoid and you just get criticalled to the face if the mage casts it on you?

A corollary question. Yesterday, the party's archmage cast a Plasma Wall on the Greater Black Reaver with a Heavy Absorbtion Shield and Sienetic Harbinger Anti-Proton Blaster Cannon that was pursueing them (the one of the pair that survived the shootout with their starship and shot it down) - as you do - dealing it an 'E' crit (well, theoretially...) We've been playing D&D 3.5 for so long, none of us though anything of it. But can you actually cast spells like that into an occupied area? Or should she have had to cast it in front of it?

I'm personally inclinded to say yes, you can summon it on top of creatures, but I'm curious as to the official answer as it were. It also raises the question of what happens if you try it with Stone Wall. (Though I'd guess in that case, common sense says you can't summon a solid object into the space of a creature, and so you'd have to summon it in front.)

[Marc R]

My ruling on that would be that you target an area, not a person, and due to the thickness of the wall being less than casual movement within a round, as the wall starts to form, the target has the option of shuffling a little so that it's:

a) Behind the wall
b) In the wall
c) In front of the wall

Generally you use these spells to block, so you'd be well advised to cast them in front of the reaver to avoid basically blocking yourself in with it.

Thus fulfilling the criteria of allowing a way out for a spell that has neither an attack roll or a RR. . .if you wanted to be able to target with Wall spells, you'd need to house rule it and designate an attack table, though I would not allow Directed Spell on the same logic as Ball spells.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Elemental Spells -- Unless it contains the sub-type of "b" or "d", it cannot be cast upon a living target unless the spell description specifically states that it can.

For example---

Stun Cloud (Wind Law) - specifies that it anybody within the radius of the spell has a chance of getting out of the area before the cloud fully forms. And no, there are no RRs involved at all. If you are within the radius, you take damage.

Light I (Light Law) - Specifies that if cast on a target that they get a RR and describes the effects of the RR as well.


One of the main reasons for this ruling is that elemental attacks are versus DB, Force spells get a RR, etc. One of the basic principles of Rolemaster is that there is always a chance, it may be a small chance, but there is always a chance to avoid damage. If you could cast damage causing spells (or unwanted effects) on a target without there being a chance to avoid that damage, then that breaks that principle.

Even the two examples I gave above offer a "chance" to avoid the effects of the spell.

[Aotrs Commander]

Elemental Spells -- Unless it contains the sub-type of "b" or "d", it cannot be cast upon a living target unless the spell description specifically states that it can.

Righto. Thanks.

Is that in the book somewhere and I just missed it? ('Cos I'll scribble it in if not!)

Thus fulfilling the criteria of allowing a way out for a spell that has neither an attack roll or a RR. . .if you wanted to be able to target with Wall spells, you'd need to house rule it and designate an attack table, though I would not allow Directed Spell on the same logic as Ball spells.

Having looked through about half of spell law looking for Rasyr's reference, I did happen upon a section on wall spells after all(which is clearly new to RMC SL, I think). That does say you can only displace liquid and gas with a wall, so you can't actually stick it on a creature. (Not that it mattered much anyway; not like the Reaver wouldn't have just walked through it anyway!) Must check new rules a bit harder next time...(Not that I would have gone rooting through for something I wasn't sure was specified anywhere in Rolemaster mid-session...there are limits!)



Totally aside note, but elemental Ball spells seem to more-or-less completely useless in sci-fi without any kind of OB bonus, once anything has any level of shields. Not sure what - if anything - I can do about that.

(Mind you, this tends to apply to grenades as well and directed spells lose a bit of their sheen when the Lighting Bolt's only about as good as the dude with the plasmatic repeater...!)

[Marc R]

Clarke's Law in action Aotrs. . .

[Aotrs Commander]

Clarke's Law in action Aotrs. . .

True.

Fly, Haste and Magnetic Law's Invisibility work in any era just as well though!

[Marc R]

Merely shows the focus of the tech in play. . .if you toss in antigrav flight belts, x2 speed combat drugs or stealth suits into play, they also become mundane (Or, at least more so. . .if captured and stripped of all gear, that lightningbolt starts to look a lot more attractive than the plasmatic repeater).

[Aotrs Commander]

Well...they party does have one anti-grav flight belt, actually. But the Archmage was able to Fly the rest of party (two at a time thanks to her Scope skills) away from the two Greater Black Reavers on short notice. And magic, at least, isn't addictive like drugs. And spells - if you have a caster in the first place, of course - aren't as expensive.

Teleport spells are also, while shorter ranged, a heck of a lot cheaper than a teleporter. Especially when no-one in the party has Teleporter Tech...

Swings and roundabouts, really.

(Still, having done my combination of Directed Spells into one skill, she can at least shoot a lightning bolt about as often and as well as some of the fighter character can their secondary weapons. And no reason LCD and Cyberlink don't work on spells, admittedly requiring a bit of faffing around to set up the first time, but then it's all plain sailing. Except for the Reavers.)

[Dark Schneider]

I have asked abou tsimilar in RM general forum: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=7833.0

I will repeat my thinking here:

About the rule, I'd modify it for spells that takes "some time" to take effect, like clouds or 'call flames', as you can easily avoid it by moving, I think that 'delay' says us that the intetion for those spells is that you can cast them over a target, and then the target can avoid it if it can.

For example, if you enclose a foe in a small room or cell, you could damage it by casting 'call flames', and it would receive the 'A' heat criticals.

In a dark enviroment you could try to use clouds as they are harder to be perceived in darkness.

Etc, etc. as I say IMO that 'dealy' was inserted intentionally for use those spells in special situations, but you can cast them over a target with no RR, as you have chance to avoid it, as you need to join many circunstances for not be able to avoid it (as can't move).

I don't know if continue posting here or in the other site, as I mention some about RMSS/RMFRP.