Topic: War Law

[markc]

 Ictus and Ironmaul;
 Yes every unit tries to play to thier strengths. That is until moral gets into the mix and causes problems.

If I wanted to get in on the next game who should I contact for information? And how much time does it take on a weekly scale?

MDC

[ictus]

contact Grinnen Baeritt, he's doing all the hard work...we just enact our meglomanic fantasies...

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Ictus and Ironmaul;
 Yes every unit tries to play to thier strengths. That is until moral gets into the mix and causes problems.

If I wanted to get in on the next game who should I contact for information? And how much time does it take on a weekly scale?

MDC

From a players perspective, you only get to know about what you (the leader) knows about (or has been told), at least this is how I've been running it, since it is being run as a PBP at the moment. So there is a lot of Fog of War going on.

So the time involvement depends on how detailed you want your orders to your troops to be. Once they are given, I do all the rules stuff, including rolls etc.... also because it is being playtested as a PBP it is at a leisurely pace (ok slow  ).

[Marc R]

Y'all are forgetting this is scenario #2.

Scenario #1 is done, fog of war is gone, and it should be 100% visible:

http://www.rpgrm.com/rmsmf/index.php?board=218.0. . .



I actually have a question on topic with the first post.

If your unit takes say 50% casualties. . .and you're forced to retreat off the field, but not under hot pursuit and constant combat.

it should be possible to move slower off the fireld with the "We take the wounded and dead with us", but I don't think it's covered.

Since moving at max rate would assume you just ditch the wounded and dead.

I'd think factors like that would have a great impact on recovery of casualties, based on in game play. . .I do understand how factors like who holds the field at the end, and the victor's orders in terms of taking prisoners vs killing the wounded affect recovery from casualties post battle, but there should be some factors like that taken into account during play. (And require actual in play choices that affect battle performance)

Often stuff like that has a huge impact on the field. . .people pausing to loot or help the wounded have turned battles. (And armies that try not to leave the wounded on the field tend to have better morale).

A definite factor in terms of a multi scenario war. . .I'd think a commander who orders collecting the wounded, taking the move penalties would end up getting a morale bonus over time that would be well worth it.

[markc]

 Without looking at the War Law rules book, IMO it would depend on how or why your unit left the field. Did you withdraw as result of orders? Was if a failed moral roll? Was it a planed withdraw? Was the unit covering another units retreet? ect. I think War Law thalks about the failed moral roll in the book and IMO a unit could reduce its rate to help the wounded off the field. Another thought I just had was maybe a few people could stay behind to tend the wounded or help them get to a shelter away from the battle field. 

 It also may depend on what the defination of "field" is. In that a battle with clearly defined boundries as well as rules of conduct might allow for recovering the wounded after a specific time of day or night. But if the battle space is more like modern warfare then is every person for themself.

MDC

[ironmaul]

I don't think it has rules to ransom leaders/commander either. From what little I know in those days the victor was better to ransom off nobles/knights etc. for money. Would be interesting to have that incorporated in the rules. Hehe, if your army keeps losing your opponent gets richer and therefore can hire a bigger/better army.

I'm sure if your unit fails it's moral rating it flees in an open formation, leaving those behind that can't keep up. I think the leader has a chance to regroup/organize his unit on a skill roll.

[Marc R]

the dreaded "Open Horde Rout"

I mean withdrawn under orders.

There's nothing I know of in the rules for "We'll go half as fast to take max time to gather up wounded" vs "We run out butts out of trouble."

At best, I guess you could attempt a first aid. . .but even a unit utterly unskilled in first aid, that took the time to collect people up and move out would gain a benefit .  . but as far as I can see, the rules don't alow for it without first aid or a healer. . .am I missing something?

[ironmaul]

I think you'll find that curcumstances of retrieving/healing wounded while withdrawing is dependent on those sending you packing. If the enemy has orders for no prisoners then your wounded are on thier own if they can't keep the pace.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I think you'll find that curcumstances of retrieving/healing wounded while withdrawing is dependent on those sending you packing. If the enemy has orders for no prisoners then your wounded are on thier own if they can't keep the pace.

Good point. For that matter, round by round in RM, or one on one in real life, the victor of the moment is the one setting the pace.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

There are factors to consider... one of which is the Open Horde Rout... the relative area taken up by a unit in this formation and the M/M penalties that they suffer are quite considerable and to a degree could be said to be replicating the flight of badly wounded members and those assisting them.

Another major consideration is the loss of equipment, in particular shields and the heavier weapons, which in a rout situation may very well be discarded to better enable flight.

In this case though, it is safe to assume that the casualties that are defined as casualties are ones that cannot be moved, or appear dead...or who are actually dead.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

the dreaded "Open Horde Rout"

I mean withdrawn under orders.

There's nothing I know of in the rules for "We'll go half as fast to take max time to gather up wounded" vs "We run out butts out of trouble."

At best, I guess you could attempt a first aid. . .but even a unit utterly unskilled in first aid, that took the time to collect people up and move out would gain a benefit .  . but as far as I can see, the rules don't alow for it without first aid or a healer. . .am I missing something?

It is a quite well-known fact that minefields...and snipers on occasion were intended to badly wound rather than kill. The purpose being that the opposition is reduced not only by the casualty but also by those who leave the field to tend/treat them....

I have used the Unit Skill: Field Dressings, to replicate the effects of First Aid by a unit during a battle. This is assumed to be an ongoing exercise in keeping your casualties from dying, nothing more. The troops "saved" are not returned to battle but simply prevented from dying. It is assumed that a unit NOT holding the field suffers a penalty, however the result of a SM using this skill is treated as a modifier to the Post-Battle Casualty Resolution percentages. The penalty for not holding the field is the increased percentage of troops that are not recoverable, thus the effect of using this skill by a unit that does not hold the field is already lessened.

I have also used three other skills that effect Post-Battle Casualty resolution, Triage (which improves the chances of using ANY of the medical skills attempted), Vetinarian (The same as Field Dressing but specific for animals/mounts), Hospital (which also increases the rate at which recoverable casulties can be returned to thier unit).
The last one, Casualty Reduction, is an immedate attempt to prevent a casualty from becoming a fatalty. This is especially useful when dealing with leaders who become casualties...


 

[markc]

Here are some quick notes I made last night while skimimg the War Law book:

1) pg 40; GM Phase:
 You have to declare you actions and they give you some examples below but they also say this is not a complete list. So you could declare some action that deals with recovering wounded.
2) Section 15.1 pg 45; Moving Man:
 In this step the GM decides on the actions difficulty.
3) How I would achieve the recovery:
 3a) I would either split my unit into two or more units if there was no ready recovery special unit. One unit to fight and the other to recover wounded.
 3b) IMO the fighting unit must push the enemy beyond where all the wounded are. This is to provide a chance for the recovery unit to act without being engaged by the enemy.
 3c) GM assigns the recovery special unit the MM difficulty.
   3c1) Possible GM MM mods:
         Min recovery personnel: 2= 0 mod, 3=+5 mod and 4=+15 mod and 5+=20 mod
         Special Equipment; Variable mod. Examples wagons to carry troops, spell to be able to quickly determine who can be saved, stretchers, etc.
         Magical Healing; Variable Mod.
         Weather; Var Mod
         Terrain; Var Mod.
         Under Attack; Var Mod.

 Also in the RMSS profession and spell lists the Arms Master has some great spells for mass combat and there is a spell list in the RMSS Channeling Companion that allows the caster to know the "condition" of a number of troops. Both would possibly have a large impact on a War Law game.

MDC

[Marc R]

RM2 version of the Arms Master and the Noble warrior too.

GB, that does cover it.

MarKc, I guess it's up to the GM to establish side rules when not described (like GBs house rule above).

[markc]

LordMiller,
 Yes in the Refereed game the GM can do a lot more then a simple my side vs your side. These little "option's" that player think up can slow down the game but again IMO they are worth it.

 I can also say that I loved how War Law worked in my game eventhough it was a RMSS/SM:P game. It took me about 3 weeks to set up the battle that lasted 4, 6-10 hour game sessions. Also I think my players loved the change of pase from RPG to WG.
 Another thing that me players loved was I had introduced some War Law magic items during the past 5-10 games that they used to help shift the battle in there faivor. Or I should say prevented there units from flee'ing, helped heal them as well as boosted moral an OB's, DB's ect. I also think it showed just how potent bowls that give endless water, sacks that produced lots of food and continus light objects were to a moving army.

MDC

[sesostris]

Wow, what a wealth of info.
So glad I asked. Though the dilemma of in game, in turn, how many
guys just got literally killed, is still a mystery.
Alas, perhaps a new version of war law is due, hahaha....

The XP table listed on page 154,
Are you to use all 5 listed items in tallying a units XP?
I'm assuming yes....

But in hps alone a unit can gain levels fast if they are victorious often or even a few
times over a larger force...No complaints from me, just wanted to know if I read it correctly.
XP given for hits delivered 1 x hps.....  so if an enemy unit you totally trounced had 3,000
guys at 50 hp each which means it's unit hp total is 150,000 hp....
times that by a factor of one gives 150,000 xp...  That's 10th level after that one fight, and even before tallying the xp for 'destroying' the unit ( which you get half it's hp total so thats another 75,000 for a new total 225,000 and now they're 12th level) or the casualty XP (which is 2 x the casualty caused, so if they were obliterated to the last man thats 2 X 3,000 for another 6,000 XP
for 231,000)

All of this is correct right?  Just double checking.... Because I have some armies that are of high unit level thanks to this....

Another concept for you....
What level are all the soldiers/officers/ and commanders now?  Certainly not the same as the unit
level but what? For every 10 unit levels everyone goes up one level personally or something?
Or no personally advancement at all? Which doesn't seem right either..... 

Regards,

Sesostris

[markc]

Sesostris,
1) I looked at page 154 and yes you apply all of them. But IMO you would also divide the total XP gained by [Stating Unit Numbers-killed]/(Starting Unit Numbers)= X. X is the fraction of people IMO that could possibly have earned the XP. So that is the number you would divide the total XP by.

Note: That above formula is my own and not in the book.

2) In the book they give you information about the various officers and higher level commanders. Also in the advanced game they talk about chances of your leader or a PC getting wounded or killed based on how many casualties the unit took.

3) Also IMO it helps a little [or IMO a lot] if you know a  little something about RM2 or RMC. Some of the concepts from RM2 are not explained as well IMO as they could be in War Law. But also IMO it is a great product and I would love to see a new version of it for both RMC and RMSS/FRP.

4) I also remembered the spell list from the RMSS/FRP Channeling Companion it is called Battle Field Healing. When trying to think of the list instead of looking in the book I also remembered that the RM2 Arms Law Comp and I think it was the SUC and Arcane Companion had some good stuff for use in a WL game. The one that sticks out in my mind is the magic items that give you real time updates of relative position, health and in some cases messaging and sight from the others wearing the magic items. So it is you basic military Command, Control and Communications network with other added bonuses. Yes this can make a group very powerful in a WL game, but it is also a way to give low level PC's a leg up during the battles.

MDC   
MDC

[Marc R]

Holy parallell evolution batman. . .

Same formula I use. . .you sure that's not in the book somewhere? (Or are we just both on the same page mentally?)

I find the larger EXP problem comes in officer shares.

[markc]

 A little off subject but it looks like a fun time over there. And I know that a War Law game can take quite a bit of time and thought while the situation works its self out.

MDC

[Marc R]

Loads of fun.

heh, tell me about it. . .marching. . .marching. . . .marching. . .I'm beginning to think a sliding time scale would be a good addition to the game.

[jolt]

Ictus and Ironmaul;
 Yes every unit tries to play to thier strengths. That is until moral gets into the mix and causes problems.

Stupid morals; always causing problems.  I think units with morals should be the first to get wiped out - that'll learn 'em.

Sorry, couldn't resist (didn't try very hard either).  I now return you to your highfalutin' quality posts.

jolt