Author Topic: Thoughts on EA11  (Read 3297 times)

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Offline Arioch

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Thoughts on EA11
« on: December 09, 2008, 08:35:02 AM »
A question and a couple of idea inspired by the new EA.
First the question:
I'm not sure if I've understood correctly what's written on page 2:

Quote
It is strongly recommended that if you are using Gifts in your game, in any manner, that you do allow or use the Background Options from the core rules.

So, if I want to use Gifts I should also give players the standard Background Options? Seems a little strange to me... ???

Now my thoughts/impressions:

I've really liked the idea of PPs from various sources. It's a simple idea but I think it could be easly developed, linking each stat to a set of PPs and, in this way, making each stat a "Realm", a source of power usable to activate special abilities (spells, chi-powers, psionics, feats,...).
I know I'm basically describing how Gifts work, but I think that the concept could be expanded to create something new. How? This brings me to my second thought on EA11 ;D
The other thing I've liked in EA11 are the Power Sets. When I saw them I thought "cool, they're the equivalent of Spell Lists for Gifts!"
Then I thought "hey, couldn't a similar mechanic be used to make Spell Lists?" This way everyone could develop his own personal spell lists: all you have to do is tying together a certain number of Gifts, each activable spending a certain amount of PPs.

So I came up with this idea:
- Add an option for each Gifts that doesn't require PP to work: this option will reduce by a certain amount the cost of the Gift, but it will make the Gift use PP dependant (the character must spend xPPs to activate it for a certain period of time).
- Add 1 or more Sources to all Gifts: this will show which stats you can use as a source of PPs to activate that Gift (for example: Accelerated Mending sources could be: Co/In/SD, meaning the you can link this Gift to one of those stats). When selecting a Gift you must choose which of the listed stat you'll use as the PPs Source for that Gift (if you want to be able to use more sources you must learn the Gift multiple times).
- Insert the concept of Power List: a Power List is basically like a Power Set (maybe with a slightly reduced DP cost), but it's composed only of "activable" Gifts. All Gifts in a Power List must use the same stat as Source.
- Power Lists would basically replace Spell Lists and Sources would replace Realms.

Obviously the idea is still at an embyonal stage: I haven't taken into consideration some things (skills used for activation of Power Lists, armor restrictions, etc...), plus it's clear that only the Gifts in EA11 cannot replace all the Spell Lists from Spell Law + Companions. Still, I thought that it could be an interesting idea, what do you think? Do you forsee any problem I've missed? Do you think it would be possible to do something like that?
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 09:32:52 AM »
1) That should say "Not" to use BGO when using talents -- will correct that an upload a new version of the PDF later today

2) Costing PP for things that don't -- I am actually working on a blog entry on creating a Power Set, where I actually do this.

3) Not so much on folks getting multiple sources -- the way it is currently setup, you can choose ANY source for ANY Gift, so long as it sort of makes sense. However, all of your Gifts should have the same source (for those that use PP). A Player (nor a GM) should not be bogged down trying to track multiple sources.

4) Not to sure about the "Power List" idea...

Offline Arioch

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 12:39:05 PM »
1) Ah, now it makes more sense!  ;D
2) Cool, I'll check it out
3) I see the problem of book keeping using multiple sources of PP, but I also like the concept of using different sources of power for different types of effects... need to tinkering a bit around
this idea  ;D
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 06:40:39 PM »
Check out http://www.ironcrown.com/index.php?page=blog&a=65 about the costing PP thing.

 ;D

Offline dutch206

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 06:58:34 PM »
Hmmm....how to put this delicately?  :hm:

If I wanted to use Talent Law, I would still be playing RMSS/FRP.
"Cthulhu is the bacon of gaming." -John Kovalic, author of "Dork Tower"

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 07:34:04 PM »
So EA11 isn't for you. That is quite alright. It isn't going to be for everybody, but it will be for some.  ;D

Offline Arioch

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 10:11:02 AM »
Check out http://www.ironcrown.com/index.php?page=blog&a=65 about the costing PP thing.

 ;D

Great, that's more or less what I had in mind!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 10:17:21 AM by Arioch »
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline jolt

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 11:54:14 AM »
Hmmm....how to put this delicately?  :hm:

If I wanted to use Talent Law, I would still be playing RMSS/FRP.

I don't have EA 11.  Are the Gifts really as poorly costed as the talents in Talent Law were?

jolt
"Logic will take you from A to B.  Imagination will take you everywhere." ~Einstein

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 12:47:54 PM »
I don't think that they are poorly costed.  :D

I think that dutch's reaction is that he just doesn't like Gifts/Talents or talent-like abilities in general.

The base costs range from 5 to 30 points. A number of Gifts have options/features that may be selected when they are acquired which raises the cost.

For example, Innate Ranged Attack (IRA) costs 20 DP for a ranged attack that does the same damage as a shock bolt and has a range of 50'. Every +50' of range to the attack costs another 5 DP. To increase the attack to a size that is equal to a lightning bolt costs another 30 DP. So to have an Innate Ranged Attack that does the same damage as a Lightning Bolt and has a range of 100', it will cost you 55 DPs (20 base + 5 range + 30 lightning bolt sized = 55).

Many features are marked with an asterisk. This allows the Gift, IF it is part of a power set, to be increased increased by letting the character add features as he goes up in levels (represents growing into his Gifts). However, adding features after the Gift has already been acquired costs double the normal DP cost.

So, if our IRA started out as part of a power set, and at shock bolt size, to increase it to Lightning bolt size would cost 60 DP.

Offline Arioch

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 02:22:48 PM »
I don't have EA 11.  Are the Gifts really as poorly costed as the talents in Talent Law were?

jolt

I think the costs of Gifts are much more balanced than those in Talent Law, plus there are no Flaws (so no extra points to buy more talents) and there are no uber-talent like "blessed by war god"
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline jolt

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2008, 09:28:19 AM »
Good to know.  I plan to buy RMC when I can; hopefully soon.  The Big 3 books first and then Creatures and all the EA's later.

Isn't it interesting how everyone wants to be blessed by a war god or somesuch?  No one ever asks to be blessed by the aqueduct god or the goddess of cobblers.  Normally I'd weep for our generation but I'm old enough to blame everything on "kids these days".

jolt
"Logic will take you from A to B.  Imagination will take you everywhere." ~Einstein

Offline thrud

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2008, 12:31:26 PM »
My initial reaction is two thumbs up, great addon.  ;D
EA11 and the gifts seam balanced enough to me. It fealt a little light and I would like to have more but hey, it's only a EA... when the time comes for gifts to be introduced officially in book form I'm sure we'll see it more fleshed out.

jolt> We have seen gods of different focus giving their blessings, far from everyone wants the blessing of a war god. Actually no one wants the blessing anymore? It's kind of boring...
- Hey look everyone I'm a superhero...
- Yey, we're so impressed.  ::)
Somewhere along the road most everyone in our group realised it's not about being powerful, it's all about having a fun character.
One of my best PC's ever was a blind Seer. He was a blast to play. LOL

Offline jolt

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Re: Thoughts on EA11
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 02:26:28 PM »
jolt> We have seen gods of different focus giving their blessings, far from everyone wants the blessing of a war god. Actually no one wants the blessing anymore? It's kind of boring...
- Hey look everyone I'm a superhero...
- Yey, we're so impressed.  ::)
Somewhere along the road most everyone in our group realised it's not about being powerful, it's all about having a fun character.
One of my best PC's ever was a blind Seer. He was a blast to play. LOL

Yeah, the second part of my post was in jest.  I probably should have put a smiley in there or something.  I got the idea from an old episode of The Tick which featured the superhero Mighty Agrippa, Roman God of Aqueducts.

jolt
"Logic will take you from A to B.  Imagination will take you everywhere." ~Einstein