Topic: Firing into melee?

[runequester]

We just treated it as cover in the last game, but how does it work, if you wish to use a missile weapon against an enemy engaged in melee combat?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The thing to remember is that the melee combatants are not static, that they are constantly moving about during melee.

With this in mind, I think that you should always treat a melee combatant as having Half Hard Cover at the very least. If you have a friendly combatant between you and foe (in the general scheme of things), then I would treat the friend as Full Hard Cover. And if you miss, then that same roll is applied against the friendly combatant (or nearest (to you) character between you and target).

[dutch206]

The thing to remember is that the melee combatants are not static, that they are constantly moving about during melee.

With this in mind, I think that you should always treat a melee combatant as having Half Hard Cover at the very least. If you have a friendly combatant between you and foe (in the general scheme of things), then I would treat the friend as Full Hard Cover. And if you miss, then that same roll is applied against the friendly combatant (or nearest (to you) character between you and target).

Some "Friend" that would be....Arrow in the back, anyone?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Oopsey? 

[Hurin]

I think that it SHOULD be very hard and dangerous to fire into a melee, for the reasons Rasyr outlined. So the system he outlined seems quite reasonable for me.

[markc]

 But as Rasyr said combat is not static. So I came up with some house rules that said every time s shot went within 5 feet of a combat group there was a chance that someone in the group would be hit. I the GM provided a penalty and if the shooter missed because of the penalty then there was a chance that the projectile hit a non intended target.

MDC

[Hawkwind]

Happens regularly in my HARP campaign. The two warrior types - fighter and ranger - will get into combat, the rogue will stay back and shoot arrows. Since the ranger isn't as good a melee combatant as the fighter, the rogue will usually target her opponent. The ranger has ended up with several arrows in the back - and doesn't generally appreciate the assistance 

On the occasions when the rogue has targeted the fighter's opponent, bad rolls usually just bounce off his armour.

Hawk

[GrumpyOldFart]

If you miss, those downrange of your intended target are in just as much danger as those between you and him.
I'd say pretty much equal chances for all targets in the field of fire. You can be a crack shot, but if someone moves between you and your target *as the arrow is in flight*, your accuracy doesn't help. Start with 1/x chance of hitting any given target (x=# of targets downrange), weighted toward your *intended* target by your IN bonus. What keeps you from shooting the wrong person is your ability to successfully guess which way people will move.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I had a house rule about this, that ended up convincing people to simply NOT FIRE into melees unless they were swarming a dragon or something.

Base chance to hit a given target = 100/# of targets within *ONE HANDED* melee range of intended)
This is based on length of weapons and length of stride. 1 handed weapons are about the length of one step for the person wielding them, regardless of that person's size. Few people will take more than one step between the time the missile leaves the firer and the time it impacts the victim. Feel free to "add a step" to the field of fire for every 100' of distance the missile travels.
Size modifiers - Large = x2, Huge = x4. So if you have a human with 1 handed weapons, another with 2 handed weapons, a giant (Large) with 1 handed weapons and a dragon (Huge), you have 1+1/2+2+4=7.5 targets.
100/7.5=13.33, so

01-13 1H Human
14-20 2H Human
21-47 1H Giant
48-00 Dragon

and whatever target you roll gets your full on attack. The only thing you can do to improve your chances of hitting is to have a high IN. If it's 98, giving you a +9, and you're trying for the giant, then

01-10 1H Human
11-14 2H Human
15-50 1H Giant
51-00 Dragon

as you added 9 to your chances of hitting the giant and took 3 each from the others available.

Fine and good where the sheer amount of sky your opponent blocks out makes him an easy target. Where it gets ugly is when they're all the same size:

01-14 1H Human (Friendly)
15-28 1H Human (Friendly)
29-42 1H Human (Friendly)
43-50 2H Human (Friendly)
51-64 1H Human
65-78 1H Human
79-92 1H Human
93-00 2H Human

If you're trying for the 2nd 1H non-friendly and you have +9 for IN, then

01-12 1H Human (Friendly)
13-24 1H Human (Friendly)
25-37 1H Human (Friendly)
38-43 2H Human (Friendly)
44-56 1H Human
57-79 1H Human
80-92 1H Human
93-00 2H Human

and that's using the remainders to the shooter's advantage instead of against him. Note that there's still a 2 in 5 chance of shooting one of your own.

The net result of this house rule was an opinion among my gamers that firing into a crowd was just an idiotic thing to do. Kind of like in real life.