Topic: Character Software Companion - Any Interest?

[Cory Magel]

Is this Jonathan Dale we're talking about? I've been using...
ROLEMAST.XLS - (c) 1998-2003 Jonathan Dale - 11/30/2003
...to create NPC's for a long time now.

[ob1knorrb]

No, this is a different peice of software which was released in 2004.  I did a review of it at one point:
http://www.icewebring.com/Reviews/Character_Software_review.php

[Cory Magel]

Ah! John Cardinale. That's why I was thinking of Mr Dale. Last names sound a bit similar.

And my heart goes out to you guys who were John's friend. My group of friends are guys I've been hanging out with for well over 20 years in most cases. My "newest" friends (that I know well) I've known for 8-10 years. We losta a friend in Highschool, so I know a little of what it's like, but can't imagine losing one of them in a way that left me with unanswerable questions like that.

As an aside, I believe I had given John permission to use the material (not sure of the ICE side of the ramifications of that) from the Channeling Companion already if there was any question about inluding it in future work.

[ictus]

I think as it's free there shouldn't be an issue from ICE, though explicit approval would be best before this goes back out there as it used to be a paid for item, and if it is to be charityware (not heard back from Steve on that) then it may have other implications.

My side of it's easy, I have space and bandwidth and quite a bit of traffic.

[FatSteve]

I think as it's free there shouldn't be an issue from ICE, though explicit approval would be best before this goes back out there as it used to be a paid for item, and if it is to be charityware (not heard back from Steve on that) then it may have other implications.

Not sure what implications there are if no money changes hands.  I sent Bruce at ICE an e-mail about it a month or more ago, but did not get a reply.  I'm assuming it will not be a problem. 

I will try to get at least the locked version to you within the week.  What I have been trying to figure out is which files need to be included for a person to open it and modify it with Filemaker.  I'll check with my computer consultant this week over some beer. 

As for the charityware idea, I think it is a good one, but I can't think of any major charities John favored.  In the end it is probably best if we just give it away as Freeware.  Once money changes hands certain legal doors open which are better left closed. 

Steve

[FatSteve]

I believe I had given John permission to use the material (not sure of the ICE side of the ramifications of that) from the Channeling Companion already if there was any question about inluding it in future work.

The professions from the Channeling Companion, including the different Priest variants, are all in the program.  I'm pretty sure any spell lists and training packages are in there too.  I just haven't had the opportunity to play a priest character yet (although I've been wanting to!)

Steve

[JeffHannes]

I know someone with filemaker skills, but I dunno if he'd be willing, shall I ask?

That would be me... I am a professional FileMaker programmer by trade, and an avid gamer by hobby. I've got quite a few of my own FileMaker Rolemaster databases I've culled together from time to time. I remember the week my eyes nearly bled out from trying to key in all the combat charts.

In any case, I would certainly be interested in helping to support and update the software. I have the means to both view and edit FileMaker files (obviously) and also the software to create standalone versions of the program that anyone can run, with or without FileMaker. (And yes, that's perfectly legal and supported by FileMaker...it's the purpose of that particular piece of software.)

Steve, if you're interested in talking about this more, feel free to drop me an e-mail at JeffHannes@gmail.com.

And speaking about the legal aspects of the ICE material...Where would the combat charts fall into that? One of the utilities I had dabbled with was a combat tracker...You would key in the PCs, NPCs, their weapons and relevant stats, and it would do all the rolling and cross-chart checking for you, and keep track of health levels and wound penalties (such as bleed and whatnot) as each round progressed. Never quite finished it, but would certainly be up to the task of cleaning it up...if such a thing is legal for distribution of course.

[vroomfogle]

Jeff - such a program with the critical and attack charts is unfortunately not ok to distribute.  I've actually made a couple of those myself.  The first was written in VB6 and was a very comprehensive program.   I then rewrote it in .NET, but with only basic functionality (because it turned out that the comprehensive program slowed down combat because required too much data entry round to round).   This current program is very simple, simply looks up numbers in the charts and applies the result to a list of combatants, and tracks the effects round to round.

ICE's view on combat programs such as this has always been an emphatic No, because of the inclusion of the data tables.  In my case I have all the data tables (attack charts and crit charts) as XML files.....I'm with you on the eye bleeding...

[ictus]

Welcome aboard Jeff,

Posting your email just cost you some spam though as various but trawl boards like these for just such things.

As for combat charts, Vroomfogle said it all they always say no , makes sence but

Character creation however they seem to like people making software for, as it's a proces that can take some time.

I haven't heard back from Tim about legals yet, but due to the fact that there are lots of other free char gen bits out there it shouldn't be an issue.

As for charityware, perhaps we should simply add a readme file with a little note about the author and a request that if people like and use the software the donate a little something to a charity of their choice, thus no request for cash is made and the freeware aspect is intact.

[ob1knorrb]

I think the only legal issue might be the inclusion of all the descriptions of the spells and skills, which I think this software has, and most other character generating software wasn't allowed to include.  I don't know if ICE was getting a percentage of the sales of the software originally or not, but I think special permission was granted initially to allow the inclusion of more information than usual. However, that's just a guess on my part and we will need to wait to hear back from someone at ICE for the official word.

[ictus]

well the thread has been going nearly a month, Bruce has been emailed, I've emailed Tim, so I guess we start poking any second now 

[FatSteve]

I think the only legal issue might be the inclusion of all the descriptions of the spells and skills, which I think this software has...

The Character Software Companion does not include any skill descriptions or spell descriptions.  It DOES have all of the training package descriptions, except the TPs from Essence Companion, and it lists the names of all the skills and spell lists. 

Also, he WAS giving a percentage of each sale to ICE, which is why I sent Bruce a message several weeks before starting this thread.  That was when John was selling the program, and I completely understand cutting them in on a piece of the action.

I don't think the program alone would allow someone to play the game, or even generate a character unless they were already very familiar with the books.  I AM very familiar with the books, and I always have to refer to them when I make a character. 

Steve 

[ob1knorrb]

You're right, it doesn't include the descriptions for the skills or the spells, I was confusing that part with one of the several HARP programs I had been testing (not John's)

[John_P]

Sadly, John passed away in February of this year.  For reasons none of us will probably ever understand, he took his own life.  He was a good friend.  He loved gaming more than anything, and Rolemaster was the only FRPG for him.  In his will he left me all of his gaming stuff, including a complete library of all ICE's Rolemaster products and his Character Software Companion.  (Perhaps the HARP software too, but I haven't found it yet.)

I think the Rolemaster library was a subtle joke, since he and I had a running competition to have more Rolemaster books than the other.  "I have a book you don't have..."  In the end he won by finding copies of the out-of-print Robin Hood and Mythic Greece genre books.  I never had a chance to top that.

It is in John's memory that I want to make the CSC available to all Rolemaster players, for free.  Keeping it to myself seemed a waste of all John's effort, and trying to profit from it is unpalatable to me.  Hopefully, some of the computer-skilled gamers will take it on themselves to keep the program evolving with the game.  I wish I had the skill and time to do it myself, but that just isn't in the cards. 

Steve

My condolences to any and all others who knew him.

I worked with John beta testing on both the HARP and RM companions, and I always found him to be quite pleasant. He worked hard on his products, and I was quite unhappy about the falling out he and ICE seemed to have. (I know no details about it, and I don't want to get into it, but it was sad, none the less.)

Whatever his beliefs were, I wish him well and wish something could have been done to help him.

John

[craig]

As for combat charts, Vroomfogle said it all they always say no , makes sence but

IMO, it doesn't actually make that much sense.  they're missing out on a great opportunity here.

rather than just say "No", what they should do is publish the data as a purchasable product.  say $5 for Arms Law tables, and another $5 for Spell Law descriptions, etc.  they should be published in some standard format (e.g. XML) which software authors can import into their programs.  that would open the door for a plethora of RM and HARP related software, without the need for any of them to distribute ICE's copyright material.

so, an end user would purchase the data sets from ICE, and they would purchase (or download free software) any of several programs that make use of that data.  the program would import the data sets, and the user could start using it as intended (e.g. for character generation; tracking battles; resolving attacks, maneuvers, spells, fumbles, etc; as an "RM encyclopedia" on a laptop at the gaming table etc).

[FatSteve]

I was just looking through John's files, and I found the HARP software.  It is labeled "Build 1" so I don't imagine it is a completed project.  It is second priority for me, but if someone really wants to complete the HARP companion, I will make it available. 

Steve

[ictus]

I mailed Tim, but haven't had a reply as yet, but as long as it follows the existing principles of Char Gen software already out there I'll run with it on resourcemasters unless told otherwise.

[FatSteve]

For anyone who is concerned about this, I am having a little difficulty figuring out how to generate code keys.  I know they are only good on the date they are generated, so using an old key will not work.  Right now, this is the only major item delaying me.   

I won't be posting for a couple weeks after this Friday.  I'm going to get away from it all for a couple weeks, but I won't abandon the project. 

Steve

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Steve - sorry we did not get back to you sooner, but things have been more hectic than you can imagine around here.

What it boils down to is that since John has passed away, ICE's contracts with him have ended.

That means that the programs he had, if you want to release them, must follow ICE's standards for software.

In short, this means:

1) The program must be freeware (you would have to remove the activation/code key stuff from the program) and you cannot charge for it. As for the idea of Charityware -- On that, I would say it would be permissable only if donations to charity were not mandatory; the user gets to select what charity to donate to, if they donate; and there are no nag screens (like those found in shareware) or limited functionality.

2) The program cannot contain large portions of ICE's IP (i.e. large sections of text copied from the books are a no-no - a few short skill or TP descriptions are one thing, but critical tables constitute a large portion of one (or more) of ICE's products, hence the reluctance to allow them in softare).

3) The programs were made using Filemaker, a proprietory software. Thus, I don't think that the licenses for Filemaker would be compatible with an Open Source license. So I don't think releasing the code under an Open Source License would be feasible


I think that this covers everything on ICE's end.

[ictus]

That's a good start...

So the code key needs to go.

A text file asking for donation to a charity off your choice can be including in the distribution.

And as Filemaker creates stand alone runtime apps, as well as files that can be edited with filemaker, under similar distribution to Excel that should work out.

It would be fitting to see John's work more widely used, he was a nice guy.