Topic: Ask Andraax

[egdcltd]

I have been pondering the populations as well, and thinking that the numbers might be high for all of those cities.

Going by the population density figures in A Magical Medieval City Guide I get the rough population of Sel-kai at about 10,000 to 32,000 for an average city and up to 108,000 for one on a major trade route.

With the maps missing scales - in particular the Port of Izar - is there a rough idea as to what scale they are?

[RandalThor]

Personally, I do not mind them having large populations, it is just that the corresponding maps and stuff should reflect that.

[Terry K. Amthor]

I'd like to hear what people would guess the populations of Lethys, Haalkitaine and Sel-kai are, based only on the maps. Lethys and Sel-kai are mostly structures 2-3 stories tall, many just shops with a family living behind and above, though a lot of the teal buildings in Sel-kai are apartments with a higher density: dockworkers and other low wage earners packed into cramped quarters. Haalkitaine does have more stone architecture, many buildings 4-5+ stories tall with apartments, though a lot of the larger buildings are noble villas with relatively low occupation density.

[egdcltd]

I actually came up with a figure of well over 200,000 for Sel-kai, when comparing it to Venice in terms of size and then multiplying that size difference by Venice's population. It's substantially bigger, probably well over double the area, and at the sort of time I was looking at Venice had an estimated population of over 100,000. Being bigger, Sel-kai's population density is probably lower though.

Something similar happened for Haalkitaine when comparing it to Paris. Again, the land area covered appeared substantially bigger, being about double, and the population of Paris was probably 50-80 thousand. Assuming 50 within the walls, that would put Haalkitaine at over 100,000.

I read that medieval cities tended to have really dense populations - no-one had cars to get around for one thing.

[Terry K. Amthor]

I actually came up with a figure of well over 200,000 for Sel-kai, when comparing it to Venice in terms of size and then multiplying that size difference by Venice's population. It's substantially bigger, probably well over double the area, and at the sort of time I was looking at Venice had an estimated population of over 100,000. Being bigger, Sel-kai's population density is probably lower though.

Something similar happened for Haalkitaine when comparing it to Paris. Again, the land area covered appeared substantially bigger, being about double, and the population of Paris was probably 50-80 thousand. Assuming 50 within the walls, that would put Haalkitaine at over 100,000.

I read that medieval cities tended to have really dense populations - no-one had cars to get around for one thing.

That's fascinating. I honestly don't remember where I came up with the 150,000 for Sel-kai, but I think I based it one something related to Venice (It was almost 25 years ago, so my memory is fuzzy), but looking at my own map, where are all those people living? Based on the scale, maybe those apartments are broken up into hundreds/thousands
 of tiny rooms

[egdcltd]

I did come up with a similar problem - there don't appear to be the structures to house everyone, if they are individual dwellings. From the various city-building supplements I've been reading recently, I do get the impression that the map buildings are way too big to be one single dwelling, even though the individual plans in the sourcebooks suggest many are. It's probable residential properties are actually clusters of many different buildings either crammed close together or with tiny alleys running through them. Residents of older European cities (and newer ones in the UK too) had very little square footage per person.

Even then, neither Haalkitaine nor Sel-kai come close to approaching Rome or Byzantium at their peaks, which had 500,000 to 1,000,000. Conceivably, the capital of the Emerian Empire might have, but it really didn't last long enough to achieve that, only a few hundred years.

[markc]

  There was a site with an app (web page) that let you estimate a country, city, towns max population by plugging in several factors. I have to run but you might do a search and I will try and find the old webpage when I have some time today. BTW, it was a great tool IMHO.


MDC

[egdcltd]

  There was a site with an app (web page) that let you estimate a country, city, towns max population by plugging in several factors. I have to run but you might do a search and I will try and find the old webpage when I have some time today. BTW, it was a great tool IMHO.


MDC

Might be this that I found earlier: http://www.lucidphoenix.com/dnd/demo/business0.asp

[markc]

  It looks close but the one that I found had values for food availability (abundance) and such and no D&D stuff. I clicked the link at the bottom to goto the original article and it looks to be no longer there.
MDC

[markc]

Here is the link, http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm to the info that I was thinking about.
MDC

[espardenyer]

Dear Andraax, what can be the main mission of Dytus in the Centre of power Ahrenryak in Ordia... wait? protect? It seems that they have not intervened much since its creation.

[Terry K. Amthor]

Dear Andraax, what can be the main mission of Dytus in the Centre of power Ahrenryak in Ordia... wait? protect? It seems that they have not intervened much since its creation.

Someone's been smoking the old Atlas Addendum. Please, try to be more specific and include details. I am real busy here with Jenkyna and Ondoval and the big lizards all up in my plans. And kids not doing what I want, and the Empire all dropping their tech spies. Really? Who volunteered me for this? Where's Amroth? Oh, right, Amthor, sure, anagram, so cute. No wonder Fenlon thought he was making up his name at first.* What a nerd.

* True story.

-- Andraax

[egdcltd]

How do the Loari "dock" their airbarges and Sel-kai their skyships outside of their home nations? Do they land on the ground, in the sea, tie to a normal dock or what?

[Terry K. Amthor]

How do the Loari "dock" their airbarges and Sel-kai their skyships outside of their home nations? Do they land on the ground, in the sea, tie to a normal dock or what?

Actually, there are depictions of a Loari airbarge landing in the central circle of Sel-kai city, and a skyship landing and taking off from a dock at Haalkitaine, both in the Loremaster Legacy (shameless plug)

http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?affiliate_id=181921

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E6QAGXK

Airbarges can land on any solid ground, but they require tenders, just like any Terran dirigible or airship. They then need to be tied down.

Skyships can only land in water, and prefer to descend and ascend at a gentle angle as they ease through the water. However, when necessary, a skyship can lift or descend almost vertically. This places stress on the hull, however, and is not advisable.

[egdcltd]

And I'd read that too. I should start treating it more as a resource. p229 in the PDF for an airbarge and p306 for a skyship.

Reading it, I think in most cities it would seem likely that airbarges would therefore actually land outside the city on cleared space, as inside them there would probably be a combination of insufficient room and paranoia about having them overhead.

[Terry K. Amthor]

And I'd read that too. I should start treating it more as a resource. p229 in the PDF for an airbarge and p306 for a skyship.

Reading it, I think in most cities it would seem likely that airbarges would therefore actually land outside the city on cleared space, as inside them there would probably be a combination of insufficient room and paranoia about having them overhead.

Larger cities (e.g., Kaitaine, Lethys, Artha, Ardan City) that deal with regular airbarge traffic would have some kind of landing area for them, where they could be easily unloaded (airbarges often carry cargo). The airbarge landing in the Sel-kai Great Circle was kind of showy move by the Loari arriving for New Years.

[egdcltd]

I was thinking some sort of field outside town for airbarges, perhaps with some type of semi-permanent facilities - it could be dual use.

[terefang]

I'd like to hear what people would guess the populations of ... mostly structures 2-3 stories tall, many just shops with a family living behind and above, ... are apartments with a higher density: dockworkers and other low wage earners packed into cramped quarters.

have a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insula_(building)

if you consider cramped living from the industrial revolution you could possible fit one bunk into 1-2 square meter (so a 10 m2 room would let 5-10 people sleep). double that with time-sharing bunks!

c

[Old Man]

Speaking of populations - I ran across this study years ago (and had to Google myself to find a post linking it) -->

"A study of population density of ancient, medieval and modern cities in relation to transportation"
http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/11311