Topic: Opinions on a female martial order and its name

[pyrotech]

I've been working on my fantasy setting for HARP for a bit and come to a bit of a stumbling block creatively.  I'm not sure what to name the martial order that is used by female hobgoblins, and what kind of social ramifications it may have.  So I figured I would bring it up here and see what other's opinion on it is.

The Hobgoblins of Husak are a replacement race for the common fantasy Half-orc character race.  They were a tribe of exceptionally large and smart goblins that have flourished and grown stronger after joining a religious alliance with the other classical fantasy races a long long time ago.  They have a very structured society based on castes, but an individual may change their caste by valor, skill, dedication, poor behavior, or crimes.  Marriages are most often between a single pair, but higher caste individuals are allowed multiple spouses (this applies to either gender but is most commonly polygyny).

Husak is a very martial society with military service as a requirement for full citizenship. The professional military castes (generally the career soldiers and officers) are considered the elite castes in their society.  Admission to these castes usually requires sponsorship, and good records with attending the Husak Martial Acadamy a serious bonus.  Due to the nature of pregnancy and child rearing  these roles are most often filled by males.

Females from Husak looking to enter these castes have had a great deal of trouble throughout history due to the rigid nature of Hobgoblin society and the old boys club attitudes of the career military castes.  In response to this an alternative means of military service formed for Husak's women.  A martial order whose caste sits on a level with their male counterparts, but is overseen by female matrons instead.  This caste is much smaller than the male counterpart but that has also given them an air of elite status as well.

My issue is largely in the name of this military order.  I don't want something too overused, but would like it to be fairly familiar and obvious as to what it was.  Ideas I'm kicking around now include Steel Maidens, War Maidens, or Blood Maidens for the junior "enlisted" caste.  These members would be considered "married" to the order's celestial patron power with an effective voe of chastity to avoid infidelity.  The senior cast similar to an officer's caste would be the Steel/War/Blood Matrons.  The Matrons would still be considered married to the patron power but are either of a high enough caste to allow multiple spouses or get an exception allowing for children in some way (I am still working on this).

Does anyone have any opinions on names for these? 

Have I missed any major social issues this society may casuse that I should address?

Thanks for your attention and feedback.

Pyrotech

[markc]

 IMHO it should follow the pattern of names you have for the male hobgoblens, but I am not great on names. Just talking about castes makes me want to look to India's history and see if they have any good names that might help you out.


 On a second note I think it is great that you are working on a setting and it is moving forward. 


MDC

[pyrotech]

Thanks,

This setting has been a pretty ambitious undertaking for me.  Probably too ambitious.  It started out as a small setting that I could easily contain and detail for a Basic Roleplaying game.  But it required a reason why is was an isolated setting and to explain where humans came from.  So I came up with some reasons why much of the world has been inaccessible and left it as a place more experienced adventurers and explorers could try to rediscover.

But then two adventures into the game my players decided they didn't like Basic Roleplaying that much and the game stopped.  I later decided that it would be very easy to port it over to HARP - and since it was already mostly developed I might as well develop most of the rest of the world as well.

I had forgotten how much detail I had left out of the original campaign documents.  So now I have essentially two campaign settings in one common world that I'm developing.

I suppose I should probably really concentrate on the original one and get it finished and polished - but I keep coming up with stuff for the other while working on it.


And back to my original question.  I've recently been contemplating calling them War Wives of So and So.  I still haven't named their patron celestial yet.  The Warmaidens (or Steel Maidens or Blood Maidens) would be early initiates "betrothed" to the order but not yet fully married in.  Full members would be Warwives (or Steelwives or Bloodwives) and the senior members would be Warmatrons (you know the drill).

Thanks for the feedback.

Pyrotech

[GrumpyOldFart]

Order of the Iron Rose. 

[markc]

 How about the lower order being "Promised to "God"" then progressing up the marriage scale? So the lower order is just in the early stages and does not have all of the restrictions of the next "rank". Maybe there is a combat art that is basic taught to the lower order and then a more advanced combat art that follows.
 Do the followers do something unique to themselves at various ranks? Chop off one breast? (I think that was in a book I read somewhere) Or get some tattoos? Use only specific weapons? Take some drug that amplifies some of their base abilities? Magic steroids or divine steroids?
MDC

[yammahoper]

The "My marriage options are very limited and I refuse to sell my body so I learned war and the art of combat you worthless bastards" group.

Has a nice ring.  You seek more a group/nation idea than individual warriors though me thinks.

Hmm, let me look at historical names for female warriors...Hesperian or Gorgon Amazons,  Thermodontine Amazons, Zabibi (and her successor Samsi) reigned as Arabian warrior queens from approximately 740 to 720 BC (Both commanded armies containing large numbers of women),  Majaji, who led the Lovedu tribe which was part of the Kushite Empire during the Kushite's centuries long war with Rome...all that in only a few minutes of Wikki reading...the article is much longer and very interesting...I'm off to finish it.

I'll close by suggesting you pick an historical group and name you arganization after it, as a neat tribute and a sly bit of secret knowledge.  I steal,,,err, borrow from history whole sale lots.  Its fun and easy.

[pyrotech]

Lol Grumpy!  I had better not go with that - I know some people that might think I was comparing them to Hobgoblins.  What is worse, I think they can probably beat me.  And I think the local grand melee is this weekend - so they are all in practice!

As to Mark's comments:

It is my intention that the initiates would have both limited rights in the order but also fewer restrictions.  For example romantic entanglements for a Warmaiden would be seen in very poor light by the order and would probably require some atonement and delay their admission to the higher ranks.  The same romantic entanglements for a Warwife would border on or possibly be seen as a criminal action that could get them seriously fined, expelled from the order, and probably significantly demoted in caste.  A Warmatron however would be allowed a bit leeway here, but they would be expected to fill mentoring and leadership roles in the order reducing their ability to travel as they will.

The breast removal thing I suspect originates with the legends of the Amazons who are sometimes said to have removed one breast to avoid it interfering with their archery.  Although I believe there may some similar stories from cultures even before the ancient greeks.

The hobgoblins of Husak already have their own unique martial art (tentatively named Gromesh - meaning "to battle" in Husak) based on ancient greek (spartan specifically) pancration with some added weapons.  Maybe I'll look into creating a sub-type of Gromesh for this order.

Since these ladies will have a certain air of eliteness they probably should have some way being easily identified.  I thought briefly of a veil, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense when many of these ladies are going to be concerned with chopping people up.  Veils impede vision and they wouldn't like that. Perhaps an amulet or better yet a special bracer that they where signifying their status.

I am trying to avoid too much religious entanglement since the order really isn't a typical fantasy clerical order.

I will almost certainly create a training package for them however.  It would probably have a weapon skill, the armor skill, a mundane lore skill of some sort, and perhaps their gromesh variant.

Thinking on this a signature weapon might work too - incorporating it into their gromesh variant.  I'll noodle on this some.

Thanks,

Pyrotech

[Zut]

The "Crimson Gloves".

I left intentionally out the wife thing and all female related words as I thought that an order of female warriors exclusively wouldn't choose a feminine sounding name (to be taken seriously be their male couterparts). And crimson relates to blood and gloves to an easily seen piece of garment. You see a woman with red gloves at a bar, you better be respectful!

I also heard about the breats cutting thing and not quite believe it. You get easier done with straping them. Anyway.


Please keep going, I am interested in knowing how it evolves!

[pyrotech]

Hmmm Crimson Gloves.  I might be able to work with that.  Although I would be tempted to change it to the Crimson Bracers.  They would wear their blood red bracer on their non-dominant hand (this may cause a small penalty to hide checks).  They may still use their maiden/wife/matron designations internally with different bracers depending on their rank in the order, but to outisders they are all "So and So of the Order of the Crimson Bracer".

I'll let this idea percolate in my mind for a while and see what comes out!

Thanks for the input.

Pyrotech

[GrumpyOldFart]

The Plague Rats. They tattoo whiskers on their faces, making them look like ugly teenagers made up for Halloween. Go ahead, laugh at one, I dare ya.

[markc]

 I was also thinking about maybe something to do with the indelible dye that is used when people vote, like in Egypt. Maybe every so and so days (before the dye wears off) a new ritual is done to redo their dye so all the world can see. I was thinking that name might be the Indigo's or something like that.
MDC

[GrumpyOldFart]

I can hear it now:

"Run for your lives, it's the Indigo Girls!" 

[pyrotech]

One of the issues I have seen with calling them the order of the crimson bracer is that I can already see my players calling them the order of the crimson brassiere.  And well, that isn't going to be conducive to an image of respected and talented warriors.  Not that this would prevent me from doing it.  The real world is full of poorly named organizations slightly embarrassed by what the rest of the world calls them.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Yeah but if they're serious warriors, that problem at least partially takes care of itself.

Go ahead, laugh at one, I dare ya.

You may think it's a stupid name.... but you don't say so to anyone you don't trust with your life.

[arakish]

Don't know if you would like it, but I had an all female order called The Shangrala Sisterhood.

They were martial artists based on the Dancer and Dervish professions in RoCo2 (I think).  Maybe RoCo3.  They always had a tattoo on their left cheek just below the eye that identified them as such.  When high enough rank, they received an additional tattoo on the their right cheek and became known as Shantelaines.  The Shangralas were highly honored throughout the lands since their main motto was: "To defend the defenseless against the lawless and the forces of Shadow and Darkness."

When they defeated evil/lawless enemies, they tended to geld the males and force them into slavery at their Palisades.  (Is that female cheering I hear... )

Maybe I'll dig up the ancient WordPerfect file and give it a good edit and upload it to the Vault one day.

rmfr

[GrumpyOldFart]

An order name based on the fact that they dye patterns on themselves with indigo, leaving a dark blue-purple stain...

The Storm Cloud. The Shadows. Bad Water. Twilight.

[Zut]

Don't know if you would like it, but I had an all female order called The Shangrala Sisterhood.

They were martial artists based on the Dancer and Dervish professions in RoCo2 (I think).  Maybe RoCo3.  They always had a tattoo on their left cheek just below the eye that identified them as such.  When high enough rank, they received an additional tattoo on the their right cheek and became known as Shantelaines.  The Shangralas were highly honored throughout the lands since their main motto was: "To defend the defenseless against the lawless and the forces of Shadow and Darkness."

Looks like female paladins. 

When they defeated evil/lawless enemies, they tended to geld the males and force them into slavery at their Palisades.  (Is that female cheering I hear... )

  Why should all-female groups be extremists??? It's like the Drow society: great ideas, great villains, only Forgotten Realms society with all-females only leaders. This gets me annoyed sometimes. Don't know how FR is doing now. Maybe they added another one with all female saints?  (irony here)

I won't be cheering for slavery, whoever does it.  And don't slavery contradicts the motto: "To defend the defenseless ..."

Maybe a tattoo is a better identification sign than some sort of clothing. It's harder to forge, especially if you use a specific colour.

[GrumpyOldFart]

They tattoo black around their eyes, on their lips and on their nose, making their faces permanently look like skulls.

The Angels of Death.

In theory you could fake being one... but of course if one catches you at it, you'll be killed out of hand. And if you've really offended them, they'll bring you back so they can kill you again.

[GrumpyOldFart]

With a race like Hobgoblins or Orcs, I could easily see the idea that the greatest fear is being taken captive. They'll take you back to camp and use you as a training dummy for the young warriors, and a training patient for the young healers. Beat you to death and bring you back, over and over and over.

[arakish]

I won't be cheering for slavery, whoever does it.  And don't slavery contradicts the motto: "To defend the defenseless ..."

Not really.  They are basically imprisoning the lawless/evil who attacked the defenseless.  Similar to using prisoner labor in our society today.  To further prevent the lawless/evil from perpetrating other acts of lawlessness/evil, they are also gelded.  Look in Saudi Arabia and find what they would do to rapists.  And that is in modern, supposedly civilized, society.

I also agree on slavery.  Most fantasy RPGs are loosely based on the Medieval times, perhaps prior.  And prisoners (former lawless) were often used as slave labor.  Even I have to admit that slavery is the way of the land when conquering or defeating an enemy, and the handling of some prisoners.  I do not like it, but it was true.

rmfr