Topic: How Would You Rule?

[jdale]

I'm looking for any references of the magic expelling/dissolving the foreign material..glass..

From a game mechanic perspective, what is the effect of the glass? Is it described as an effect of the critical? If so it will go with an activity penalty, bleeding damage, etc. In that case the rules are clear about the effect and also what will or won't fix it. E.g. a potion that heals concussion hits but not bleeding damage is not going to fix glass shards in the skin that are causing continuing damage.

Everything beyond the game mechanics is description and is up to the GM. The character trips and somehow takes an E crit with lots of damage and bleeding. You as GM choose to explain it by saying the glass has shattered and embedded itself in the character. It is your right as GM to add extra complications if you think they are useful to the story. Maybe you want him to need surgery, or you want to have some kind of magical mixing effect from the potions. That's fine, but it's coming from you, not the rules.

The rules provide damage mechanics (hits, bleeding, activity penalties, etc) and healing mechanics (concussion hit relief, cut repair, etc). You're not going to find a spell for "glass fragment removal" because there is not a mechanic that causes glass fragments to be inflicted. You have to assume that the intent of the rules is for the different kinds of damage to be repaired by the different kinds of healing. Pick which one(s) are most appropriate and they should work, unless you choose as GM to inflict a more serious condition in service to your story.

[markc]

 The situation was one that I was thinking about and wondered how people would rule. The glass shards came from me as I envisioned an apprentice carrying an open box full of potions, bandages, etc to help his master deal with injured people. And as we all have seen in RL and many have experienced, he trips and falls. In the setting I have in mind I have him coming down a set of stairs with a landing at the bottom. Fallowed by more stairs before reaching the ground.
 I agree that no critical really deals with the situation as I have described so I did adapt it to the situation. It has been my experience with knowing people/events who have had serious injuries from broken glass that I used to adjust the crit to what I thought it might be. (the big ones were someone who was dancing on a glass table and it broke, she almost lost all of her blood as well as both of her legs do to the severity of the injury. The other big event was a co-worker who got in an altercation and ended up going through a sliding glass door, he almost lost his arm and leg to the event and was off work for about 6 months IIRC. Even after that he was on light duty for a while.)


 So I made a decision based on how I would rule the event and I then sat down to figure it out. The questions I asked myself were; would the potions heal the would with the glass inside the body or eject the glass shards?, Would the potions work at all? and how would other's view the situation?


 Again thanks for all of the thoughtful analysis, insights and comments. 
MDC 

[arakish]

Late in seeing this post...

My ruling?

"Here's another char sheet.  Get your dice out."

Actually, I'd rule that the potions would not take effect, even if some got into his eviscerated stomach.  Reason: Since the stomach is eviscerated, it will not be digesting anything.  It is split open.  Its acids are spilling out all over the place.  Although with today's technology, something like that could be undone and the person saved, it would still require a very quick response time.  With magic, it is a different story.  First, you'd repair the tears, then repair the damage caused by the chemicals.

I also rule that a potion bottle broken negates the magic of the fluid inside.  I rule that it is the container that "contains" the magic that is held in the potion.  Once the container is broken, the magic is gone.  POOF!  Does this make sense?

rmfr

[providence13]

Our last game, someone got their "arm pinned to side".
I didn't have to say anything. The party understood that the arrow had to be removed and then they could use healing magics. A great first aid roll over 2-3 rounds and it was done. I think that specific crit helps in this case; not for every crit.
Now, they knew this from how we've played in the past, sure. But it seemed the right way for our group.

About the potions losing magical effect when broken..
Rune Paper would also be ruined if torn/burned/etc, (although it is tough stuff- another argument). This would cancel the stored spell.. So I agree with broken potion bottles with the caveat that you may have a small window of opportunity to get some effect.

In Of Channeling, 1. Create Holy Water was added to the Creations Cleric Base List (I don't think it's there in earlier copies of Spell Law.). "The water loses its effect if not placed in a clean receptacle". If you dump it on the ground, then it's no longer Holy. 

In Channeling Companion, Holy Water is an 8th lvl spell in the Priest Base List Ceremonies but will "lose its potency quickly" if not stored in a container "as clean as possible".

For Channeling Potions, it could be that the Holy Water spell effects and restrictions are applicable.

If you smash the Holy Water bottle on a Vampire, it still has effect.

I grew up watching Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger, where the witch, in bird form, breaks a potion of transformation and has to lick up the remaining spill for reduced effects; her foot is still that of a bird but the rest of her is human.

Watching this a few dozen times has likely biased my opinion. Stop Motion over CGI any day! 

Every game is different. Have fun with yours.

[rdanhenry]

In Of Channeling, 1. Create Holy Water was added to the Creations Cleric Base List (I don't think it's there in earlier copies of Spell Law.). "The water loses its effect if not placed in a clean receptacle". If you dump it on the ground, then it's no longer Holy. 

Create Holy Water is in the RMSS version of Spell Law, 1st level on the Cleric Base list Channels. Creations is Closed list.

[yammahoper]

playing the ToEE many years ago, we met a foe wearing a ring of reverse damage.  Damage healed while healing damaged.  By the time we figured out what was going on, we had very few (i.e. one) healing spell left.  So we bombed him with most of our healing potions as the GM stated they were half effective when smashed/dumped on a target.  Was lots of fun.

[providence13]

Thanks rdanhenry! You are absolutely correct. I was typing faster than I could think. 

yamma, I'll have to dig out my ToEE. That sounds like fun. I was thinking of using that module in RM down the road anyway..

[Marc R]

I have to agree with Thom. If these are topical potions, it was a good day to fail a MM, if not, ouch.

[Nortti]

E-crit for tripping and falling? My god how did I survive to this age ?!

Anyway, PC or NPC, as I consider healing potions to be magical they would work at least enough to make sure the character would live. Some shards could leave nice scars so that you can get sympathy from the maidens when you tell the story afterwards.

Killed by shards of glass from potions of healing Those big shot magicians/alchemists should already come up with that spell for plastic bottle creation!

[providence13]

Hey, I found the Potion Miscibility Chart for D&D. I don't know if it's the same as the old Dragon magazine, but it might work in a pinch.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b

[TAK]

Without looking at any other answers:
On first instinct, I'd say "no" out right.

However, if you are a merciful GM, you might wanna rule that if the potions have been made from herbs that you'd normally use by rubbing the wounds, then they might partially heal, but I'd say the shards are not pushed out of his body or anything.

[jaranka]

Treasure Companion p. 42: "Also, unless they are a gas or an oil, if a potion's container is broken their effects are lost [and] do not necessarily affect whoever they spill on."

[markc]

Treasure Companion p. 42: "Also, unless they are a gas or an oil, if a potion's container is broken their effects are lost [and] do not necessarily affect whoever they spill on."

A-Ha the perfect answer. Great job on your research, gain 1 level.
MDC

[Ynglaur]

RAW - no effect.

For fun - An Unusual Effect.  The poor fool is completely healed of his injuries, and in fact will regenerate 1 hit/round (regeneration!).  However, he is in constant pain, and will be at -10 to all maneuvers unless under the influence of a pain-killer (either magical or mundane).

[yammahoper]

Potion Miscability, oh how I loath thee...

Back in my first ADnD game, with the most excellent of GM's (I started with TnT/Runequest long before I gave DnD a try), my eleven fighter thief quaffed a haste potion.  When the fireballs started to fly, I slipped on my ring of fire resistance and quaffed a Potion of Fire Resistance.  Pat's grin I shall never forget as he pulled out his own, expanded table.  I rolled 00; both potions work normally, one is now permenant.  It was the Haste potion (did we call it a speed potion?  1986 was a long time ago...).  As some may recall, Haste potions in ADnD age you one year when used.  So Gwen aged one year every 15 minutes.

[RandalThor]

Potion Miscability, oh how I loath thee...

Back in my first ADnD game, with the most excellent of GM's (I started with TnT/Runequest long before I gave DnD a try), my eleven fighter thief quaffed a haste potion.  When the fireballs started to fly, I slipped on my ring of fire resistance and quaffed a Potion of Fire Resistance.  Pat's grin I shall never forget as he pulled out his own, expanded table.  I rolled 00; both potions work normally, one is now permenant.  It was the Haste potion (did we call it a speed potion?  1986 was a long time ago...).  As some may recall, Haste potions in ADnD age you one year when used.  So Gwen aged one year every 15 minutes.

In essence, he became a fast aging Quickling. (Sort of.) Crazy.