Topic: How Would You Rule?

[markc]

 In this situation how would you rule?


Description:
 An young apprentice is running with an open box full of various healing potions for the healer. He suddenly trips and falls flat on ground (E crit), shattering all of the bottles and driving shards glass into his body.


 Question(s):
 1) Do the healing potions take affect?
   1a) If the healing potion's takes affect, do they expel the glass from the boys insides? Or if the potions do take affect does the healing potions leave the broken glass inside the boys body, thus requiring surgery to remove the shards?


Thanks
MDC
 

[Thom @ ICE]

Since you described them as potions (and not salves, ointments, etc.) I would rule that since they were not ingested they had no effect.

[Kristen Mork]

Is the apprentice a PC or an NPC?  I would be more lenient with a PC, and might allow the healing potions to save a PC life, whereas the NPC is probably in trouble.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I can't remember what book it's in, but I'd go looking through my old RM books to find the table concerning the interaction of multiple magics.

 

[Marc R]

If the potions require ingestion, no effect, if they work as a salve, they'd heal.

[Fornitus]

I like the need for surgery later. all those scars add character.....

[Witchking20k]

An E crit for tripping and falling!  Dude!?! 

[ironmaul]

An E crit for tripping and falling!  Dude!?!

LOL! Just let the combined magic potions explode and paint the surrounding district red!

[RandalThor]

If the potions require ingestion, no effect, if they work as a salve, they'd heal.

This is like my idea on this: Magic is intent. What is the intended use of the potion? If it is drinking, then they wouldn't work in the fashion described.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Let me ask you this: If you took the exact same box of potions, and instead of tripping, falling and breaking them, emptied them all into a bowl together and stirred them up, what do you think would happen?

Whatever that result is, that same reaction is what's now taking place inside the guy's bloodstream, right?

[Michael Petrea]

WITH AN IRON FIST!

Oh, sorry.  I hadn't read past subject line 

I agree with the posters above who say that the potion doesn't take effect if it is not imbibed. If it was a salve that worked by absorption then spilling it would be a different story.

Of course, this makes me think that if you took a crit that eviscerated your belly could you pour the potion directly into your open stomach?  It would in effect count as digesting the potion.

[intothatdarkness]

If they're just general healing potions, I'd say that they have no effect. The original post doesn't say if they were anything fancier than Heal X damage potions, so I don't see any ill effects from them being combined. But they'd be wasted.

[markc]

Of course, this makes me think that if you took a crit that eviscerated your belly could you pour the potion directly into your open stomach?  It would in effect count as digesting the potion.

 This was one thing I was wondering about and I guess I did not relate well enough. Yes the apprentices stomach was split open to the point that the potions could directly enter the stomach and thus being considered "consumed".


Potions Info:
 The potions of healing are essentially "herb" at 100%, "herb" at 50%, etc. Does it make a difference if the "herb" is magical vs mundane? IMHO no it does not matter if you can cut the potion with something that just changes the value of the effect.
 So their are not problems mixing the potions but there might be an over dose problem or addiction problem.
  (The fact that you could become addicted to healing potions brought a funny scene to mind in which an old adventurer asked a bar keep for a healing potion instead of a drink. It was more like essence of "herb" and not healing potion of course. But then in an adventurer bar it might just be healing potion.)


Glass Shards Issue:
 I was wondering what people thought about healing potions ability to expel the glass? Or for that fact expel other matter from the wound. Do they do this? Do they not? Would a healing potion heal a wound with a sword stuck in another's body? Or if that is a stretch what about an arrow wound with the arrow still in the wound?


 I like the idea that you should have to open the apprentice up and remove the glass and then heal him again. But that might be just me.


Where did this come from?
  Well I think of common situations (or read/hear about them) and try and make it more dramatic or just change things around to see if it would cause more drama. The TV show the Waling Dead got me thinking about these types of situations and how a bad situations can get even worse.   


The Apprentice:
 The apprentice is a NPC not really important at this stage but maybe if the game goes on a long time.


Thanks all
MDC

[providence13]

Ahh,
this is a Rorshach Personality Test designed to show how a GM rules in a given situation.

I find that I'm not immune.

1) Moving Maneuvers can't yield E crits; unless I missed something on the chart.

2) Like Herbs, not all potions have to be applied the same unless they are designed to be foolproof. Foolproof could be similar to keying; drinking, pouring, however it's applied penetrates and magically heals. If a "potion" contains a spell and casts that spell on the person who "uses" the magic item, can it be applied incorrectly?

3) If an arrow remains in a body after healing magic is used, is it expelled or stuck in the body? This is the same as the glass shards. Incidently, many of my potions are not in glass containers. Rune paper is near invulnerable in some games but potions, which require more PP, time and energy to make (iirc) are far more fragile?
I could see a first aid/second aid/surgery  maneuver to remove the foreign objects. This is RM after all where you need separate spells to handle nerve, muscle and bone.

More later.

[providence13]

GM: If the items are prepared herbs, which are different than potions, I could see addiction. Some herbs do yield different results if mixed with other herbs. Grab the books and use everything that applies.

Player: Give this GM a serious thrashing, put a cat down his pants or convince the other players to stage a coup d'état.

[Michael Petrea]

markc, regarding glass shards...
I would say that if the healing is magical (by whatever definition is used in your game) then, if the effect applied is of the sufficient power to heal the wound, then unless the wounding object is held in place by an external force (e.g. an enemy's grip) it would be pushed out.  That is the "magical" vision as I see it.  I don't think any concussion hit healing magic would push anything out since it seems to me that if there is shrapnel tearing through you then it caused more than just hits.

If you want to pursue a more "gritty" campaign vision then I would say that an appropriate first/second/surgery aid would be needed before applying healing.

Also, you could pursue a detailed by-spell effect method where you say that Clotting wouldn't expel the shards since its spell effects don't "heal" the wound but only close it until it heals.  Cut repair may then be considered to push out the shards since it returns the flesh to an immediately healed state.

[jdale]

Like others, I would say potions are for drinking. So no effect there. Salves could work.

I would give the potion bottles a breakage check, not assume automatic breakage. Thin-walled glass is likely to break, but not certain. So it's possible a potion could survive and still be used to save the victim.

If someone is healed magically (by a potion, salve, spell, whatever), I would assume that includes removing any fragments of the weapon that caused the injury (glass fragments, arrowheads, etc). The only exception would be disease-causing agents and poison, for which I would consider the character to need to make an RR against, but then assume no further infection if they made the RR.

[yammahoper]

Potions that are poured on wounds or self to take effect would work/have interesting results.

[providence13]

I don't have much experience in this so I'm glad you've given me something to think about.

I'm looking for any references of the magic expelling/dissolving the foreign material..glass..
Shatter Repair requires a 10 minute operation.
Muscle Repair True and Tendon Repair requires a 1 minute operation (concentration).
Minor Brain Repair requires 1 hour operation.
Heart Repair is a 1-10 hour operation.
Organ Repair needs a 1-10 hour operation.
Organ Transplant takes a 1 hour operation.

All of these are high level healing spells, IMHO. Potion X is a 25th lvl spell! For my games, this is pretty rare; YGMV.

My point in all of this is that concussion hits are easy to heal. Minor repairs from crit damage usually just require recovery time. If the healing spell requires a "1 minute operation (concentration)", I could see it that the spell in the potion can handle the concentration part. Otherwise, you couldn't make a potion from this spell. Which seems self-defeating.
I'd rule that repairing the "sliced open stomach" would be an Organ Repair.
Since Organ Repair requires a 1-10 hour operation, I don't believe that dissolving the glass is assumed in this case. But if you must operate (and I'm not totally convinced that "operation is surgical" in this case), I don't think this particular spell in the potion could handle the 1-10 hour operation part.

[providence13]

I guess the operation could be that the imbiber remains motionless or concentrates on healing. Concentration could be assumed if unconscious.

My potions "bottles" are going to be saving as magic items. Maybe at the level of the spell used to create them.
Thanks again.