Author Topic: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph  (Read 1485 times)

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Offline Karizma

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Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« on: January 16, 2012, 04:32:13 AM »
So completely sleep deprived and after some damn good beer, I spent some time thinking about what makes a fun game, in general. Now I'm not going to pretend like I know everything, but I find that theory helps a GM organize thoughts.  So here's some thoughts I've come up with, and I specifically wanted to know what y'all as GMs do to enhance certain elements I would like to focus on.

Generally, the work for a GM is far greater than the work of the Player. And the players can't have fun if the GM fails to be a decent GM, generally.  If the GM can provide two key elements, the players have the ability to provide the third element to make a Damn Fine Game.

Immersion
The players need connection to the setting. They need to feel for a little bit like they matter in this world, and that they have an influence on things around them. It's far easier to do this in a tabletop game than it is in a video game, so we get that advantage. But we have bookkeeping to do, and we need to stay on top of things. Lots of notes help that. But what we also need is to give the players things that are important to them. NPCs or locales that are important to players--not JUST their characters.

Adversity
Pure immersion is boring, we need to do something with it.  Challenge the players with something that--if they ignore will take away some important things to them.  Those immersing elements are now bargain chips that can be risked.  More than risking player CHARACTERS, we can risk NPCs that are far quicker for GMs to make than a new character sheet.  Give the players a risk that is both difficult enough to be legitimately challenging, but not so much so that the players can succeed.
If a GM cheats, were things actually risked?  That's a debate for another thread, but I'd like to think that the GM could ideally set things up so that the GM doesn't need to cheat, but that's too idealistic for reality, as all GMs know!

Triumph
Players are good at mucking over our stories and surpassing our "clever traps" and sidestepping our well-thought puzzles.  They're also capable of coming up with amazing ways to solve crazy problems.  And when they do, it feels fantastic for everyone.  GMs can't give the players the answers, because then it isn't a true triumph.  When players succeed on their own, THAT is the game of legends.

These don't need to be epic-length campaigns. These elements should ideally be established early on.

The problem is, how do WE as GMs get players IMMERSED and CHALLENGED?

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 06:52:08 AM »
Quote
The problem is, how do WE as GMs get players IMMERSED and CHALLENGED?

Two things I find do wonders in terms of immersion are 1) little details and 2) beginning the game by defining (and relying on) interpersonal relationships.

As an example, an opening I'm working on for a campaign that will probably begin next week.

The acolyte comes before the paladin, bows and says, "Her Curiosity will see you now, Your Ignorance." You see, he is a follower of the Goddess of knowledge and secrets, patroness of magic users. More specifically, he is a very recently ordained member of the Order of the Speechless. As such, he is very proud of the title, 'Your Ignorance', because of course learning your own ignorance is the first major step on the road to wisdom.

What follows wouldn't be called a conversation by most people, because of course neither of them actually speak. Her Curiosity certainly won't, as her tongue was removed in the ritual wherein she was elevated to her current station. His Ignorance is still a newly ordained paladin, he still has his tongue because he is still learning the discipline of not using it. Nonetheless, they communicate in their own way, and he is given the task of attempting to find out why the giant ants known to live south of the borders are apparently shifting range north. They're only giant ants, no more than a nuisance most times, but there seem to be such a lot of them lately. If the local farmers and ranchers have to spend too much time dealing with them, harvest will be short this year. And of course, if something is driving them out of their normal range, it would be nice to know what that is before it comes here.

Being a comparatively minor mission, the church is naturally unwilling to devote serious resources to it. He is allowed to enlist companions, but pledging services, or better yet, calling in favors already owed, is preferable to draining church coffers. Perhaps that young mage we found out in that little country town, he should be anxious to work off part of his debt to us for having taught him to cast spells. Or that druid we taught those spells to, he might make a good guide. That young thug around town who has been trying to talk us into teaching him a few spells for months now, he'd certainly be willing enough to have us owe him some instruction, no?

He will doubtless be far from town, and will have companions uninitiated in the Mysteries of Silence, so he is given permission to speak if necessary to the success of his mission. But of course it will be a disappointment if he actually uses that permission, and a point in his favor if he can achieve success without needing it.

See? Little details of the culture and your place in it, such as religious titles and duties, and their interaction with lay people. Background things that tie the characters to one another, such as the fact that the mage and the druid are both already indebted to the church, and the rogue would like to be. Such things not only make the setting more "real" for the players, they also provide reasons for the characters to choose to go where the GM is trying to send them, making them less likely to get bored and go haring off in a direction the GM didn't plan for.

Most players dislike being 'railroaded', and with good reason. But if you set up the details and the interpersonal relationships correctly, often the players will railroad themselves, as it would be out of character not to.

 ;)
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Offline markc

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 12:38:45 PM »
 Immersion can/should begin at PC creation and move on from there. In my next planned game I am going to take the Dragon Age Origins tact. In that I am going to give the players little snippets of info as the game progresses ... but this is aided by the fact that the players are not going to have formal PC's until later games. During each game I am going to have them make some decisions on their PC's so it is not such a big process of PC creation all at once. Also this allows me to give info to a player about the world and environment in which they are going to play.
 But the above may not be useful to all games.
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Offline bpowell

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 02:36:02 PM »
I like the three steps.  I do this and have never thought about how I did it. I have notes going back years in the campaign and try to get the characters to interact with each other as much as the NPCs.  I also try to keep NPCs around so if the player meet them again they feel like they are not cardboard cuts.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 02:59:03 PM »
Quote
I also try to keep NPCs around so if the player meet them again they feel like they are not cardboard cuts.

I keep the dead and recycle them.  :faro:
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline bpowell

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 11:09:53 PM »
One of the first times I played a DM ran us through Tegel manor.  I remember a near TPK.  The next time I was playing, I remember saying..."The next room is empty."  As we entered the room Zombies attacked us.  I turned to the DM and asked for a description, and he described the old party.  The Rodent turned the dead party into Zombies and used then against us.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 07:12:56 AM »
Well even aside from doing that kind of thing...

If over the years, the players have lost a fighter, 2 rogues, a ranger, a warrior mage and a cleric... well if they get attacked by a band of orc raiders, and I want that special fear that comes from your opponents being able to learn all the same skills you can... I'll take the old character sheets, change the race, maybe tweak a skill here and there to match the new race/culture/etc., change their gear of course...

And presto, I have a band of orc raiders that were each built as individual characters, by someone who wanted them to hang together logically and be survivable come what may. Not only that, I have memories of what that original character acted like, and can 'port a certain amount of that into the context of his new situation if I wish.

The fighter you hire in town this session may be the same fighter who died session before last, just with new gear and a different attitude.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 08:50:56 AM »
The main thing when recycling is to remember to change the name. And add/remove a mustache.
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Offline bpowell

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 11:38:26 AM »
The main thing when recycling is to remember to change the name. And add/remove a mustache.

Espiecially if it is a female NPC.   ;)

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Immersion, Adversity and Triumph
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 11:53:29 AM »
The main thing when recycling is to remember to change the name. And add/remove a mustache.

Espiecially if it is a female NPC.   ;)

Quite so. A female dwarf just doesn't look right without one.  ::)
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula