Author Topic: Weights & Measures  (Read 2655 times)

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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Weights & Measures
« on: December 06, 2011, 09:27:08 AM »
I thought about putting this in the GM's Corner, but decided I wanted players' input too.

To what extent do you play around with weights, measures and currencies in your setting? Why or why not?

cp/bp/sp/gp/pp, lbs. and feet, everywhere you go... it's convenient to have a standard regardless of where you are, and pounds and feet don't clash as badly with most fantasy settings as meters and kilograms... but while it's convenient, it's also bland, flavorless.

I've done a bit of experimentation along these lines, but I'd like to get other peoples' thoughts, too. Overall, do you consider it worth the hassle?
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Offline markc

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 10:07:15 AM »
 In some game groups it is great as they get more into the drama aspect and do not mind the notes and conversions and in others it does not work at all as they just do not want to be bothered with that aspect of the game.
  Sorry that is not an answer one way or the other.
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Offline providence13

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 10:31:48 AM »
After GM/playing Mythus (Dangerous Journeys) I really like the old school terms and measures.
Stone= 14 lbs.
Rod (perch, pole, lug from wiki.) = 15-16 ft
League = 3 miles
Furlong = 10 chains
Chain = 4 rods

Most people aren't familiar with the terms so it sounds different enough to keep the mood of the game.

What I like about these is that they all vary a bit from different areas and different years.
 "A stone of beef, in London, is the quantity of eight pounds; in Hertfordshire, twelve pounds; in Scotland sixteen pounds"-wiki

What if you ordered something and found out the place of origin uses a different standard for that term. ;D
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2011, 10:41:33 AM »
The most obvious "local" change to the weights/measures/currency standard I can think of is dwarves. Of course dwarves would want the coin part of the treasure as much as anyone, and of course they'd use coinage in trade with other species... but among themselves, why would anyone go to the trouble of refining metal and making something no more useful than coins out of it? You can use stones for money, there are better things to do with silver and gold, and especially platinum, than to put it in your pocket. As a culture-wide or species-wide thing, I'd expect dwarves to value "precious metals" more by their physical properties than most cultures with whom they trade.

You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline providence13

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2011, 11:57:03 PM »
I'm trying to have each country/culture the PC's encounter to have a different coinage and rate of exchange. I've never done this in all my years of gaming, but I wanted to make it seem more 'real'.

Every time they acquire a Silver Wheat Sheaf from Furyondy or a Silver Serpent from Iuz forces, I make a distinction. They don't always write it down though..
This can prove troublesome when they try to spend currency in a country at war with those who minted the coins. :)
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Offline yammahoper

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 01:09:32 AM »
i recommend money exchangers in all ports/centers of trade.  It is a great way to fleece the party of wealth and insert the greatest villian of all, the unadvoidable tax man.

que Stevey Ray Vaughn as background music.  everytime you turn on that song, the p;ayers will groan, wheedle, duck, dive, hide, teleport, prep for a fast talk roll, etc.  meeting the same tax man over and over can be lots of fun too.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 11:05:45 AM »
Now there's a good random adventure for you.  A "Tax man" that is able to track and teleport to the party... when they can't pay what they owe his 'guards' are summoned and a fight ensues. lol

We once ran a "comedy"/monty haul campaign where you were fighting ridiculous foes and amassing as much wealth and absurd items as you could (one enemy was the Energizer Bunny with a magical chain saw for example).  There was an undead pizza delivery man that would randomly show up with a pizza of eight slices... each having certain various permanent effects.  Six would be good and two would be bad.  The pizza doubled in cost each time.  It was really interesting when he would show up in the middle of a combat where we were in trouble...
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Offline markc

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 02:19:14 PM »
  The pizza sounds like what we used to do with our free pizzas in high school. A game of Russian Roulette. On the pie there would be a hidden anchovie on 1 slice/area. And it was a game to see who got it.
  AHH back in the days of free pizza and no $.
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Offline Marc R

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 03:22:44 PM »
Pecks and Gills and bushels. ..oh my.
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Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 09:39:11 AM »
I'm trying to have each country/culture the PC's encounter to have a different coinage and rate of exchange. I've never done this in all my years of gaming, but I wanted to make it seem more 'real'.

Every time they acquire a Silver Wheat Sheaf from Furyondy or a Silver Serpent from Iuz forces, I make a distinction. They don't always write it down though..
This can prove troublesome when they try to spend currency in a country at war with those who minted the coins. :)

I did the same thing with my world. Part of the background is actually the exchange rate, and only specially-minted trade bars got an even shake. Everything else had to be either converted at a discount or might be accepted by the locals at an even greater discount.
Darn that salt pork!

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 11:18:22 AM »
How does that affect treasure generation?
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
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Offline providence13

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 11:28:33 AM »
How does that affect treasure generation?

I'd say because some treasure isn't as valuable as the PC's think. This way, you can generate treasure, but then modify it by local customs and exchange rates.  ;)
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Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 11:43:51 AM »
How does that affect treasure generation?

In my case it varies depending on the treasure. More recent stuff (bandit lairs and the like) will tend to have a direct conversion rate. I tend to assume in that case that around 75% of the money is local currency, with another 25% coming from other places (results of a looted outside caravan, perhaps) and will be discounted when converted (unless the party hangs onto it in hopes they'll go to the country of origin someday).

With older ruins, the money can either be from an earlier realm (in which case it may be worth MORE to a collector or less if converted) or my "pre-history" empire. In the latter case the money is VERY valuable to a collector (only found in larger cities, for example) or fairly worthless to normal folks unless it's melted down and re-minted.

If I'm using C&T tables, I generate treasure as normal and then modify it based on the above considerations. If it's part of an adventure's plot I'll create it myself to suit.
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Offline dutch206

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2011, 02:10:10 AM »
Everyone should bookmark the following website:

Convert Me

It can convert anything:  currency, temperature, distance, volume, etc....
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 03:05:04 AM »
Every time they acquire a Silver Wheat Sheaf from Furyondy or a Silver Serpent from Iuz forces, I make a distinction.

Do a Wheat Sheaf and a Serpent weigh the same? Such things matter when you're seeing how much of the dragon's treasure you can haul away.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2011, 08:36:01 AM »
Keep in mind that a lot of the reason modern coins are in so many different shapes and sizes is so you can tell them apart by touch.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline arakish

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2011, 01:55:46 PM »
I use to use different weights and measures for differing cultures on my worlds.  However, it got to be too much like real work.  Granted, it does create more realism.  But the amount of work involved in keeping up with it all was just too much for my liking.

Since around 1992, I have used only the Standard Metric System.  It is the easiest system there is.  When I was about 11 years old and started to seriously get into amateur astronomy and astrophysics, I found everything was in metric.  Thus, I have learned the metric system so well that I find when someone uses American units, I have to convert to metric just to understand it.  The only exceptions to this are a person's height (if in feet-inches) and temperature in Farenheit.  Otherwise, give it to me in metric.

In my games, I always give weights and measures in metric.  If my players do not understand it, then I use a program called Master Converter to convert into American units.  The one thing I love about Master Converter is that you can add your own categories and units.  I find it is the best $15 I ever spent.  And once registered, you are registered for all future versions.  Can't beat that.

For monies and currencies, I still tend to use differing conversion ratios between cultures.  This is mainly due to the reason that one culture may be living in an area where silver is so rare as to be twenty, or more, times more valuable than gold.  In one of my worlds, one culture had their main citadel/capital inside a volcanic crater which was the opening.  Diamonds were so numerous that they became almost valueless to these peoples.  However, they also knew that other peoples found them to be very valuable.  Thus, the diamonds did have value for trade.

For my worlds, the empire is usually too lazy (read as "too cheap") to make different sizes and devices.  They tend to use the same size planchette and device stampers.  Or, they used molds and poured the molten metal.  Thus, the coins were always the same size and devices, just different metals.

Of course, even using the same size planchettes/molds mean the different coins will weigh differently.  Here is a table I made up for the coins of the Hatharnd Empire showing this fact.

Cut and Paste (from web page)
All coins are molded on planchettes that are 25 millimeters in diameter and 2.25 millimeters thick.  Using this, one can easily calculate the weight of each type of coin since all are 1104.47mm3.  That computes to 1.10447cc, and using each metal's density, we can easily get the mass of each coin type.  The table below summarizes the weights, rounded to nearest hundredth.  Note: On Onaviu, Electrum is a metallic element, NOT an alloy of silver and gold.

Coin     Grams     Ounces
Tin     8.05     0.28
Copper     9.90     0.35
Bronze     9.71     0.34
Silver     11.60     0.41
Electrum     17.32     0.61
Gold     21.30     0.75
Platinum     23.70     0.84

Of course, the above is virtually improbable for any empire with Medieval or prior technology.  Not impossible, just highly improbable.
 
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Offline yammahoper

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 03:01:32 PM »
Neat, but I think your coins are to big, particularly dealing with the precious metals.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline Andraax

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Re: Weights & Measures
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 03:08:00 PM »
If my players do not understand it, then I use a program called Master Converter to convert into American units.  The one thing I love about Master Converter is that you can add your own categories and units.  I find it is the best $15 I ever spent.  And once registered, you are registered for all future versions.  Can't beat that.

I just use my brain. Doesn't cost me anything, and I don't have to worry about future upgrades.