Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => RMC/RM2 => Topic started by: Elf-Mage on March 21, 2016, 12:09:22 PM
-
Hi everyone!
I've been playing RM2 for a couple of years now, and I now want to try and run a game for some of my friends. I'm not entirely sure what to use, but I already have:
Character Law & Campaign Law
Spell Law
Arms Law & Claw Law
Companion 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6
Creatures & Treasures 1 & 2
Spell-Users Companion
Elemental Companion
Alchemy Companion
Any advice would be welcome! Thanks
-
I think it would help if you could say what specifically you would like help with.
You certainly have all the books you need to play, if that is one of the things you were wondering.
-
if you don't have the combat Minion yet, that can be a big help with combat.
but otherwise, yes, it would help if we had some idea what areas you need advice with.
-
My advice is to start simple.
1) Limit the number of professions allowed in the game. This will reduce your load in needing to have all of the information about all of the professions at your fingertips.
2) Depending on the setting I would also limit the number of races/cultures available.
3) Depending on the starting level you might think of running a few "in-town" adventures like running down some bandits or the like. This will give folks the ability to sort out their characters and give you some time "behind the screen". But feel free to add in part for later adventures: a wealthy merchant that was rescued, or maybe a glowing gem that no one has answers about.
4) Most of all have fun!
-BP
-
Sorry if my question was a bit vague (possibly non-existant). Basically, I'm getting rules swamped. Does anyone have any suggestions a to what rules to use?
P.S. Thanks bp
-
Well here is what I normally do for a session. I think up the adventure.
a) Set up
b) Goals
c) Obstacle
d) Opponents
Well (a) is very straight forward and usually is just a role playing encounter. You must let the party know there is a job to do, what the pay is etc. If you start in an Inn the most you might need is some rules on gathering information. But generally it is very easy.
And (b) is even simpler. Get the gem, save the girl, kill the monster, save the world,etc.
It is (c) where things get interesting. I normally look at the things i put in their way and see how they can overcome them. Then I look up the rules for each encounter. I normally write up some note and have rules and how I am going to use them written down in front of me. It is usually just a sentence or two. But this will reduce all of the rules to just those that might come up. I also put tabs in the books with a letter for the encounter at the page of the rule. This means if a question comes up I can quickly get there.
I would just have the Character Law and maybe Arms law marked like this (I use post-it so I can easily remove the tab.) For Spell Law I would let the player know the spell and present it to me if there is a question.
For (d) I build my NPC that the people will be battleing and give the NPC a flow chart of how he will react (cast this first, that second, attack the most heavily armed character, etc). Again I will list the rules I need and tab the book just in case.
I normally spend 3-4 evenings before the game prepping. Most folks think I am flying by the seat of my pants, but this is a sign of good prep. Once you have done the leg work you will find it is in your head and you only need to reference the book if a strange action happens (My wife does this to me all the time.)
-BP
-
For a basic game, you want to focus on Character Law for building the characters (and Spell Law if they take spells).
For combat, Arms Law and Spell Law will have everything you need, like attack charts and the round sequence.
Creatures and Treasures has all you need for monsters and treasure.
-
There are a ton of optional rules in the various Companions. If you are just starting off, it might be better to ignore all of them and just use the rules in the Law books. Once you have gotten up to speed, you can always skim through to see if there is anything that especially suits the sort of setting and tone you are going for, or which solves a problem you are having.
-
Thanks for the input! I do have some concerns however:
I have a mixture of experienced RM2 players (My dad has been doing it for 30+ years), and new players. My experienced players have chosen professions from the companions that they like, and my newbies have done the same. I only have one player who has chosen a Core-Rules profession (Magician), the rest have gone for some weird options (Houri, Noble Warrior, Witch, and Necromancer). I feel comfortable with Witch, as I have played as one in another campaign. In the same campaign, my dad played a Houri. One of his friends played as a Noble Warrior. I've never seen a Necromancer in action.
One of my main concerns is that my experienced players are slightly temperamental, being my dad and older brother. They've chosen the Necromancer, and Noble Warrior (Respectively). My new players (who are some of my college friends), have followed in their footsteps and chosen off-beat professions.
I don't want to upset my players, so what should I do?
-
It has to be fun for everyone - even you. So, I'd plan sessions that get to use the various mechanics associated with each profession. Communicate to your players that for the first few sessions you'll be taking it slow and focussing on making sure each of them gets a chance to participate. Keep them tight. That way the experienced players don't get to run the mill.
One trick that I use is pairing/partnering characters together by having story lines that are focussed on them; then alternating between two story lines session to session. This means that the characters will alternate between being primary and secondary characters in the story- but, it also means that they get to play the actual characters that they were interested in playing; using the skills, spells, within a story of their own.
What Level are they starting at?
Award 2x experience in the sessions where a characters is a secondary characters to encourage positive contributions.
-
Honestly, I know what your players are feeling. I think the Core Rules professions are boring.
My advice is to just read up on the classes. That's not too much work, and from a player perspective there is nothing more important than the class you play. Your player will be using those characters for a while, and if you prevent them from playing a character with a concept they want you're going to have unhappy players.
Now if you feel you need to tone down the abilities of the characters, that's very reasonable. Some people say the Noble Warrior is overpowered. So perhaps you want to make some adjustments.
I recommend telling all the players you will let them play the characters, BUT that you are letting them know you might be making adjustments to the abilities or power level later as you see fit - and you don't want to hear any complaints. If you do it right from the start, you can prevent issues from popping up later.
Mal
-
Minimize. The dagger table can represent all that 1he weapons, the 2hs all 2h weapons, shortbow all missile, firebolt all DE, etc. Just sub crits as needed.
Gather information you need in one folder. Digging through lots of books slows the game.
-
Don't be afraid to ask the experienced players for advice and suggestions, but keep in mind that you are the Game Master, which means the final decision is yours :D
You can also assign tasks to some of the players to take some of the load off of yourself. For example, one player can be in charge of looking up the results of attacks and criticals, each player should have their own copies of any spell lists that they are using and so on.
-
Are they starting at level 1? That would simplify your situation a bit, as the more unusual professions will have only a limited capacity at first and ought not go too far beyond what you are used to while you get up to speed on their capabilities.
I'd also take care to be fair but strict. Disparities in system mastery can be fatal to your table's enjoyment, and it's been my experience as GM that those who know the game better than you will gladly take you for a ride...I GM'd RM before I'd played it - no-one else wanted to put in the work - and some of my experienced players out-and-out lied about some rules. I'd use the checklists at the back of the various companions and make sure everyone knows what's available and what's off the menu.
Case in point: when I started GMing, I only had the old red stripe box set, and one player turned up with an Archmage (from RoCo1) and utilised a whole bunch of options I'd never heard of in a very...er...idiosyncratic way. Make sure the characters are built according to your specifications, not theirs.
That said, I wouldn't rule out everything from the Companions: there are many options there that address gaps or problems in the core rules quite well. But there is a great deal of sprawl to manage. Professions are in one sense the least of your worries: it's when a player expects to use the modified Adrenal Moves rules from RoCoIV and you've never seen them that you'll have real problems.
I agree with those advising you to work with your experienced players: their experience will shape their expectations, so you need to be aware of what they're after. But you need to mine their experience, too: they'll have tried different things across the years and will have a better understanding of what works and what doesn't.
-
I am starting my players at level 1. That's so that the players can get to know their characters. I do find some of the core-rules professions a bit bland, but I'm spicing them up a little bit, as I'm letting pure/hybrid spell-users take up to four base lists from professions of the same realm(s) as them. (I've already had to shut one of my players down who was trying to take the mickey!)
I feel like my campaign will end up going a very political bent, but I'm not entirely sure how to deal with that.
-
I am starting my players at level 1. That's so that the players can get to know their characters. I do find some of the core-rules professions a bit bland, but I'm spicing them up a little bit, as I'm letting pure/hybrid spell-users take up to four base lists from professions of the same realm(s) as them. (I've already had to shut one of my players down who was trying to take the mickey!)
I feel like my campaign will end up going a very political bent, but I'm not entirely sure how to deal with that.
My GM was pretty flexible as to taking other base lists as your additional 4 base lists if it makes sense with the characters concept and bio.
What do you mean by 'very political bent'?
Mal
-
The majority of my characters are not suited for combat, but more behind the scenes manipulation. Only one of them is a dedicated combatant. The rest are either social (Houri), or Magic (Everyone else).
-
Make sure that each has a skill which they are the expert in so they fill a specific role in the party.
-
The majority of my characters are not suited for combat, but more behind the scenes manipulation. Only one of them is a dedicated combatant. The rest are either social (Houri), or Magic (Everyone else).
Ahh I got you.
You could point out to the players some of the Talents that can greatly increase their combat ability.
Martial Arts ability would work well for the Houri; since he is a Mentalism caster their Martial Arts skills wont cost too much. Let the Houri take Deadly Dances from the Dervish base lists and he'd kick ass.
Someone else in the party could always take Directed Weapon Specialist and Magical Affinity (with Transcend Armor as your Power Manipulation skill that's everyman, and a couple combat oriented spell lists from a different base class). Crud realized these were from Talent Law/Character Law in RMFP.
Companion 1 and the Arms Companion have similar Background Options though.
Mal
-
Unfortunatly, I don't have Arms Companion, and I don't like the Idea of buying BGO, as it detracts form the fun of rolling randomly for them. Sometimes, a BGO can radically change a character, but buying them seems a bit OP to me.
-
Will contest are great battles for spell users in particular. Spirits use will and a solid adventure can designed around finding the lost crypt or grave or site of the murder, etc, ending in a massive battle of wills. The combat types will have to ward off those possessed, be they animals, local npc's or pc's. If the possessed are innocents...
-
I wouldn't run with anything more than the Basic Books, no matter what you players want. In fact, and I know this isn't going to make me popular here, if it was me I wouldn't run Rolemaster just yet, I'd start with HARP. But hey, if all you've got are the book for RMC... But before everyone starts shouting at me, let me at least explain:
First, being a GM is hard, it takes practice. I've done it for 6 years then stopped and now I'm getting back to it after 10 years. It's not only about the rules, it's managing the story, the pacing, make rulings like deciding which skill is the one to be used for that particular action, how hard/easy it is, determining what happens after the dice rolls, what are the consequences of the players actions, etc etc. All the basic skills that a GM needs to master first. And you're not making it easy on yourself by starting off with so many books to keep track on. When you learn how to drive, do you start by going to the most busy highway with a lot of cars running at 100km? No. You start small, first drive around the block, then eventually learning one by one all the little skills that would make you an acceptable driver.
You're the most important person at the table, if you're not enjoying yourself, you won't want to do it again, and without a GM, there's no game. So tell your experienced players to back off, cut you some slack and give you the chance to get good, because you won't be good at your first session, that's pretty much a fact. Especially if one of them is your dad, then tell him to be supportive, not a d--k. If you say only core book professions, then core books professions it is. They'll have to make do with whatever you say it's okay in your game. And if they don't like it, play just with your buddies. I repeat, if you're not comfortable running the game, your players won't enjoy it. In fact, make sure you are the only one making the calls and using the rules, tell the rest of them to put the books away. If you screw up, move along, don't stop for arguments about the rules. Be firm, don't be a despot, listen to them, but if you don't agree your judgement stands. You can discuss all you want after the session it's done, but never in the middle.
Once you get better at it you can start gathering feedback and such, but never run a game with rules you aren't comfortable with. The rules are a toolbox to be consistent and fair, not a straitjacket, and certainly not up to the players to decide how they work, it's up to you. They need to understand that in order for everyone to have fun, the GM has to be comfortable with the game. If you can't invision a world with Monks and they screw up your vision of your fantasy world, then you're going to do a poor job at communicating that vision to your players, and as a result you're all not going to have a good time. Of course, you should try to tailor your game as much as you can to your players wishes, that's all good and all, but as long as it doesn't involve you being uncomfortable when running the game.
I'll repeat: if you're not enjoying the game, then they won't. So in order for you to run a good game for them, you need to put yourself first. Note that I said first, not the only one. Because it's pretty obvious that if your players don't enjoy themselves, they won't come back. But that's all the feedback you need for now, at the end of the session, ask them if they want to do it again some time, if they come back then you've done a good job, and, for now, that's all the feedback you need.
Also, try not not start a campaign. Like I said, start small. Run a few independent adventures. Make everyone clear that after those are over, you're going to start over with new characters, this time for real. This way you got insurance that no matter how much you screw up(and you will), you know that in X sessions it will all be over and you can hit the reset button.
I'd also strongly advice not to run a game your dad and your brother know better than you do, because chances are, if they are temperamental, they will screw you. If your budget allows it get HARP, at least for the first sessions. Not only it's more newbie friendly, but also you will move your experienced players out of their comfort zone and they won't be able to argue with you nearly as much. And, if you are not great at it(and you won't, it's your first time), they'll blame the game instead of you. Once you're comfortable as a being 'the authority' on the table, you can move back to RMC and start you campaign or whatever you had in mind in the first place.
I know some people might scream loudly about my advices, but before doing so try to remember the first time you GMed. It wasn't easy, was it? Your goal here is to learn how to drive, step by step, little by little. Your father can't expect you to run games like he does if you never done it before, just like he can't expect you to drive for the first time like he does when he's been doing it for years. And learning how to GM is like learning how to drive for the first time in a manual car(like I did), not an automatic one: most of your efforts will be spend on not having the engine stop because you can't shift gears properly.
-
My usual GM has been doing this for 30+ years (My Godfather), and if I need something sorted, I can probably see how he's done some rulings. I don't mind running RM2 with all of the books initially, as I have seen some stuff before. In my first RM2 campaign that I played, I was a witch, and my dad played a houri. I've even seen a witch hunter in play.
What I'm more interested in is:
Advice on which rules outside of the base rules to use.
Some campaign suggestions for first time players.
GM Tips and Tricks
P.S.
I don't have HARP (I'm working towards getting it)
-
I would base play in a small community on the outskirts of a big city/port/capital. Rich farm land a days march from the mountains with an old forest, river and small lake. The capital is a five days march, perhaps as far as twenty days, with small villages every 20 miles or so, with one large town with a fort or castle between the village and capital.
Such a setting offers endless adventures. Merchants, nobles, raiders, monsters, black markets, pirates, barbarian tribes, endless humanoids, guilds and local feuds...the list is extensive.
-
One of the Rules I really Enjoy using, As do my Players, Is CEATS. Or second by second Tactical combat.
I use the CEATS chart on page 100 of Companion VI
I find combat flows more smoothly using this system. Allows players to "Move" and take action on any count without having to to Know whose turn it is.
It keeps things a bit more realistic instead of having Bows/Ranged go first, then blah blah blah....
you go second by second... and if nothing is happening for several seconds, you skip those seconds, Unless some one wants to Call something out or change action during that time....
And No need to Track % of action remaining... if some one Decides o change action on Count X, they just declare it and Figure out when their New action will complete.
Been using this system now for nearly 30 years with RM2 since Comp VI came out... and Using an Near Identical system, that I had a hand in helping institute in the Creation of, in another Game system.
-
Totally love CEATS, also, and switched the second it showed up in RMC!
LOL, that your Dad is playing a Houri.
Roleplaying him and his super insane Seduction skills will both be weird and unsettling but hilarious.
Make sure to tell Mom for more hilarity!
:o
-
That was one of his old characters. In fact, in this campaign, he's the necromancer! With my older brother as the noble warrior (who doesnt know what dad is!). This could get ugly...
-
Another thing:
I'm not sure how this second by second approach works. What I'm used to as a player is the original system. It seems a bit difficult if you have attention deficit players.
-
Elf-Mage: How is the game going?
-
I was planning on starting it several weeks ago, then my parents decided to redecorate the downstairs. Everything they couldn't store ended up in garage, where we normally hold the game. Also, my friends and I are at college and are swamped by coursework.
I'll be able to start once we've cleared some space, both from the garage and our workload.
Real Life Sucks... :(
-
I've come up with some notes however:
Orc's are tribal, and not really related to elves (unlike Middle-Earth)
Each different sub-race of elf has it's own culture, although they share many similarities
I've also sped up the item creation process. I always hated having crafting characters lumbered with long creation times (especially true for alchemists and similar). It still takes time, but can be done in a matter of days, not weeks. This mostly applies to magic items.
I've also managed to find Companion 7 (Finally). I think the most I'm going to use is things like the sparring crit tables. (My godfather has a copy, so I know roughly what's in it). I'm also using some of the spell lists, like Essence Wing.
Also, I've limited my players to choosing base rules professions, unless they can justify why they should have something more off-piece. I'm excepting the Paladin from this, as IMHO, it should have been in the base rules to start with!
-
I've come up with some notes however:
Orc's are tribal, and not really related to elves (unlike Middle-Earth)
Each different sub-race of elf has it's own culture, although they share many similarities
I've also sped up the item creation process. I always hated having crafting characters lumbered with long creation times (especially true for alchemists and similar). It still takes time, but can be done in a matter of days, not weeks. This mostly applies to magic items.
I've also managed to find Companion 7 (Finally). I think the most I'm going to use is things like the sparring crit tables. (My godfather has a copy, so I know roughly what's in it). I'm also using some of the spell lists, like Essence Wing.
Also, I've limited my players to choosing base rules professions, unless they can justify why they should have something more off-piece. I'm excepting the Paladin from this, as IMHO, it should have been in the base rules to start with!
I have found that in games where the GM is generous with spell lists, making them easy to learn, the players want to use many of the companion professions. I think it is because all magicians are identical when they can all do everything and so on. If you want to play a different type of spell caster then you need one with completely different base lists and consequently different professions. If the spell lists are more restricted then one magician may have Ice Law as his main base list and a second one Fire Law then they are substantially different and everything even down to their interior decorating is likely to be different.
In the last shadow world game I played in my 15th level illusionist had 23 spell list parts. If you look at heroes and rogues their illusionist give you two different builds one with 8 lists (2 at 1-20 and 6 at 1-10th) or 5 lists (1 at 1-10th, 3 at 1-20th and 1 at 1-25th). The H&R NPCs are build using the optional rule to add your realm stat to your spell acquisition rolls making spells easier to learn. In my game I do not use any of the options to make spell lists easier to learn and a 10th level pure spell user is typically coming in with 7 lists. Given that there are typically 26 lists per realm for each professon then the players really have no idea about what any given profession will be capable of. I am also a massive proponent of spell research so every NPC spell caster of mine has at least one unique spell of their devising, something I encourage my players to do too.
-
I've never really understood the spell research rules entirely. Also, I'm not used to using it as a player because it takes a long time, and in a lot of the campaigns I've played in we've been doing a really fast-paced game
My newer players may not really understand all the rules as well, and I don't want to confuse them.
-
It takes a spell caster something like a week to research a 1st level spell. Given the healing times in RM it is entirely possible even most games to research a spell. It is harder for essence users who generally need libraries and books etc., but your channeling users can do this with prayer and such and mentalists with meditation.
If you have players who know the rules better than you it is always nice to be able to throw a spell that they cannot identify, especially if they are trying to divine the NPCs profession and level from what spells they are casting.
I find I can think of interesting mashups of spells and lists and then I just have to decide which NPC to give it to. The last one was a putting a spell that had the same effects as the Vibrations spells but putting it on the light Law Lists as the target became so electrically charged that sparks were arcing between any and all pieces of metal equipment. (the spell requires an RR each round or you have to roll a fumble with your weapon as per the Vibrations spell description).
-
Sounds like fun!
Two of my players are experienced, and one of them has even memorised the rules (well, most of them!). I wonder what kind of unpleasant surprises I can throw their way?...
-
Sounds like fun!
Two of my players are experienced, and one of them has even memorised the rules (well, most of them!). I wonder what kind of unpleasant surprises I can throw their way?...
Read and get a good understanding of what the Spell Mastery skill does and then use it with your NPCs. Give your NPC spells that are not in the book, like the electrical Vibrations spell I mentioned above or maybe a version of Hurling (Essence Hand or Telekinese lists) that uses a rope to do Grappling attacks. As soon as everything the player has memorised starts to be 'wrong' and you are confident that you can rebut any accusations of GM cheating then that will shake their confidence.
In the last adventure my players had there were three spell casts on the bad side, a cleric, magician and a alchemist. All three escaped but the one that made the biggest impact was the alchemist as he could create potions of up to 3rd level spells. As soon as the characters started to get close to the bosses areas all the minions were equiped with a variety of potions that boosted them. The bad guys had been making and stockpiling potions for just such a situation. As an example the guards then had blur and shield running which made them significantly tougher. For the most part the bad guys were drinking the best 'treasure' at first sight of the PCs.