Topic: Chain Link fence as cover

[markc]

 I agree and chain link fences around nude beaches generally are covered ... by people staring in. 


 Of course you can also put the little wooden slats (or what ever you want) in the fence and that will increase the DB by some factor as well. And I am told it looks decorative.


MDC

[Marc R]

GOF That would be more of an issue, but I'm more considering just the grid first. . .though a wall of hedge would be similar in the sense it's concealment, but also has bits of cover hidden in it.

Markc. . .or the strips of metal or that green fuzzy stuff that looks like astroturf pulled through the diagonals of the fence. . .but that more makes the chain link into nearly 100% concealment and cover (although rather flimsy cover).

Other than:

Chainlink fence: Standard (With the 3" holes)

There's the kind with the 1" holes

A Wall of Hedge (Or shrubbery).

How about a wrought iron classic manor style fence? (the 8-10' tall ones with 1" bars 5-6" apart?)

[GrumpyOldFart]

GOF That would be more of an issue, but I'm more considering just the grid first.

Sure. The only reason I mentioned it was because chain link, and for that matter any kind of open work fencing, has to be regularly maintained in order to prevent that happening all by itself... at least, in about 2/3 of the climates on Earth.

[snrdg051306]

Evening GrumpyOldFart,

What you are saying is true given the conditions described, but I understood that the two combatants are firing through a chain link fence that is free of obstructing growth. Since there is growth that has obscured the fence then the combatants are relying on sensors to detect each other. In that case I'd be lobing a grenade or something similar at the other body. Of course I may not have understood the criteria MarkC stated in the original post.

[Marc R]

I was just referring to a fence, itself, as a blockage to fire, not including other elements.

[GrumpyOldFart]

The only reason I mentioned it was because chain link, and for that matter any kind of open work fencing, has to be regularly maintained in order to prevent that happening all by itself... at least, in about 2/3 of the climates on Earth.

Your Planet May Vary. 

[markc]

The only reason I mentioned it was because chain link, and for that matter any kind of open work fencing, has to be regularly maintained in order to prevent that happening all by itself... at least, in about 2/3 of the climates on Earth.

Your Planet May Vary. 

 I guess we found a use for all of those nano cleaners that we had in stock. And I just used them to keep my medals and brass shinny.


(The last part is sort of a quote from a book by Mike Shepard in the Kriss Longknife books) (But it is appropriate for the chain link fence and other maintenance that is needed)


MDC   

[GrumpyOldFart]

Well when I saw the subject I wasn't assuming any particular chain link fence. I wasn't trying to claim anyone was doing it wrong or anything, I was just making the point that a "generic" chain link fence includes both a brand new one and one that hasn't been maintained in 30 years, so "the answer" isn't an answer, it's a range of answers.

[yammahoper]

The age old question: How often after deficating do you wipe?  The correct answer is "As often as it takes."

[snrdg051306]

Morning GrumpyOldFart,

One of the great things about the forum is that we usually get more answers for the question. Now MarkC can provide his group with a wide range of ways to complicate their heroic attempts to defeat evil. ;-)

In my case the more answers the more dazed I become. Why are my eyes crossing?

[GrumpyOldFart]

One of the great things about the forum is that we usually get more answers for the question. Now MarkC can provide his group with a wide range of ways to complicate their heroic attempts to defeat evil. ;-)

In my case the more answers the more dazed I become. Why are my eyes crossing?

In fairness, I gotta admit that

so "the answer" isn't an answer, it's a range of answers.

...is just as true of a stone wall, or a steel bulkhead, or, or, or... if you're willing to wait enough years.

[snrdg051306]

Evening GrumpyOldFart,

Yep, to my knowledge there is never just one answer of course some answers have a better outcome than others.

Tom R

[arakish]

The chain link fence probably would be a problem for a sniper using a slug throwing weapon. The fence might deflect the round just enough to either miss the target or not kill the target with one shot.

Tom R

Actually, no it would not.

Ever heard of the show called "Top Shot"?  It is show that is a competition between marksmen from around the world.  It is similar to other elimination shows except it is the marksman with the lowest score that is eliminated.

In one show I saw a few weeks ago, they had the marksmen shooting targets at a distance of 200 yards through a chain link fence.  The targets were ballistic gel dummies.  Only one marksman's shot completely blew one of the targets to smithereens.  The others just left bullet holes.  Later on, they found that one of that markman's bullets actually hit one of the wires in the chain link fence.  Instead of slowing down or deflecting the bullet, it actually caused the bullet to tumble, giving the bullet the capability of completely blowing the target to smithereens.

I happen to remember that show while browsing this board and seeing this thread.  Thus, even for a sniper, the chain link fence would actually make the bullet even more deadly and actually increasing its capability to kill in one shot.

Beam weapons are a different story.  They'd first have to melt the wire before hitting the target.  However, that might not actually be much of a problem depending upon the power of the beam.

rmfr

[providence13]

That's good to point out arakish, but will it tumble every time like that. My guess is that it might not help every time. But that sounds like a cool show.

[snrdg051306]

Howdy arakish,

I stated that the fence might deflect the round. There are a lot of factors that effects the round going down range and hitting the target. The military channel has done a couple of programs on sniper training, which IIRC, mentioned the fact that hitting a leaf, twig, or other object could cause the round to miss the target. There was a show, not sure which channel, that was about Special Operation missions and in one episode the star of the show mentioned that he had to make sure he had a clear shot. If something got in the way then the round might miss the target or not be a kill.

Yes, I've heard of Top Shot but I haven't watched the program.

[arakish]

Howdy arakish,

I stated that the fence might deflect the round. There are a lot of factors that effects the round going down range and hitting the target. The military channel has done a couple of programs on sniper training, which IIRC, mentioned the fact that hitting a leaf, twig, or other object could cause the round to miss the target. There was a show, not sure which channel, that was about Special Operation missions and in one episode the star of the show mentioned that he had to make sure he had a clear shot. If something got in the way then the round might miss the target or not be a kill.

Yes, I've heard of Top Shot but I haven't watched the program.

And you are right.  It would depend on how far down range the target was from the object the bullet might hit.  The further down range the target is, the more deflection.  In that Top Shot episode, the target that blew up was only about ten yards beyond the chain link fence.  If the target have been 50 yards behind the fence, then the bullet may not have hit the target at all.

However, out of the some 100+ shots taken by the 10 or so marksmen (each got 10 shots), only one bullet hit the chain link fence when they looked at the fence later trying to figure out why the only one target blew up.  There were no dents, bends, breaks, or other evidence that any other bullet hit the fence.  Thus, I would say there is a less than 1% chance of a bullet hitting the wire of a chain link fence.

Of course, this is for a sniper.  For someone who is simply emptying a belt or clip of rounds from an automatic rifle, I would say there is a better chance of a bullet sitting the fence.  Maybe 5%?

My fault (or what do they say now? "my bad"?).  I did not clarify how far behind the fence the target was.  Sorry.

rmfr

[Marc R]

Depends also on the relative position of the fence.

if the shooter is 90' from the fence, and the target is 90' beyond the fence, tumble may make it miss.

If the shooter is 90' from the fence, and the target is 9" beyond the fence, the tumble may make little or no difference.

[RandalThor]

Blasters are charged particle beams so the fence might just disrupt them.  As described in the books, plasma would probably stick to the fence and melt to the ground.

I'd image that the beam would melt a hole in the fence and then have not problems.

I agree here. If we are talking about a modern (early 21st century) chain-link fence vs. a uber high-tech plasma weapon, the fence would not stand a chance. It would not be able to make an appreciable dent in the amount of energy the plasma (PLASMA!) weapon will be putting out - that is designed to take on and beat the uber high-tech armors of its day.

I think either (or both) the -5 OB or 5% chance of deflection - for modern firearms -  is appropriate. The minute you are talking about weaponry that is much higher in tech-level, it might as well be air. (Except - and I know some of you have had this jump into your devious minds  - in the case of purely electrical weapons; they may be grounded out.)

[Marc R]

Heh, didn't consider that, but when being chased by people with stunners, turn and fight back from behind a fence.

[markc]

 Mrk 5 Stunners are great in a Sci Fi game when you want to limit damage to the opposite force. I have also introduced a special stunner that has an amnesia component to it for special ops missions.
MDC