Topic: Worship more than one god?

[markc]

  I was reading Tolens game world stuff here http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=150.0 and noticed and entry in the Law Bringers section that said everyone worships XXXXX god and many only worship him.
  So I was wondering how in your game do you deal with a PC that worships more then one god? Do they have more base lists? IMO they should have more duties but is this so in your game?


MDC

[Temujin]

Two parts:

1) As a worshipper:  For someone whose primary profession is not a pure, hybrid or semi channeling, the most impact this will have is on their grace pools.  If a character makes an active effort to worship and advance the agenda of more than one patron deity, they might end up with separate grace pools for both, which may also have impact on their church relations.  Of course, this works better for gods whose agenda are compatible, otherwise one might end up gaining grace with one god and losing some with another.

2)For priests and other channeling-based spellcasters, I will normally ask for a main deity from which one channels.  Lists, and so on, will be drawn from that deity.  One might still be free to respect allied deity depending on clergy, but most campaign worlds I run demand dedication from their priests.  That said, again depending on game world, I might allow polytheistic priests.  If I did, I would probably either use the Cleric build, or mix-and-match lists and profession bonuses according to how the Priest worships.  I would not normally allow extra base lists, but channelers also have access to a merit in the Channeling Companion which can get arround that limit.

[rdanhenry]

Worshiping more than one god is the historical norm. Except for the monotheistic fates, exclusive worship of a single god is highly unusual. Even a priest would likely pray to a god other than the one he serves if seeking a favor in another god's sphere (e.g., a Priest of Ares would petition Poseidon for safe-passage before a sea-journey). Real polytheism little resembles the game-world norm, which is heavily filtered through the presuppositions of a monotheistic (and largely specifically Christian) background.

For Channeling magic, yes, I would specifically have the character draw from *one* source, but that source might be a single god, a god-set ("the Fates"), or something more exotic. Although some priests historically did serve in temples dedicated to multiple gods, it is probably best to assign them a specific Channeling source and patron (either the "chief god" or some appropriate godling, e.g. "god of stone pillars") to handle this game mechanic.

[Tolen]

That's exactly what I was aiming for.  So often, the game world relies on a monotheistic approach, but gives you a catalog of choices.  The Greeks, Romans, and even Norse peoples believed in multiple gods and addressed their prayers as needed.  But for game mechanics, its simpler to assume they primarily get their power from one source.  That's the way I planned on doing it anyway.

Also, I indicated 'worship' in that post, not 'belief'.  The Lawbringers have the option of believing in and respecting the traditions of the other gods, but must dedicate themselves to his ideals, and ceremonies.  In order to maintain their source of power, they must worship only him, not the entire pantheon.

Of course, I'm converting from a d20 campaign, so the original intent was simply to provide a wide range of domains for the cleric class.

[Arioch]

Worshiping more than one god is the historical norm. Except for the monotheistic fates, exclusive worship of a single god is highly unusual. Even a priest would likely pray to a god other than the one he serves if seeking a favor in another god's sphere (e.g., a Priest of Ares would petition Poseidon for safe-passage before a sea-journey). Real polytheism little resembles the game-world norm, which is heavily filtered through the presuppositions of a monotheistic (and largely specifically Christian) background.

To tell the truth, henotheism (worshipping one god, while recognizing the existence of others, inferior, gods) was relatively common, especially during the late classical era. So the d&d-style specific priest may be not so unrealistic...

In game terms, I usually give specific spell lists to priest of a single deity, while using a "generic priest" template (basically the standard rolemaster cleric) for those worshipping pantheons of gods.

[yammahoper]

In the real world, worship of Gods allowed man to cover all his insecurities.  In the fiction of a game, the Gawds provide REAL power through magic.

Because of this, I imagine dedication to a gawd would be near fundamentally extremist MOST of the time with no other gawd suffered by the churches/temples/whatever.

The spelless peopns of the world would probably continue t hedge their bets and keep it secret from their priest.

[Elton Robb]

In the real world, worship of Gods allowed man to cover all his insecurities.  In the fiction of a game, the Gawds provide REAL power through magic.

Because of this, I imagine dedication to a gawd would be near fundamentally extremist MOST of the time with no other gawd suffered by the churches/temples/whatever.

The spelless peopns of the world would probably continue t hedge their bets and keep it secret from their priest.

* blink *

Okay, well . . . hmm . . . I think I better not respond to this topic much.  Except to say, I don't agree with all of you said, Yammahoper.

In a fantasy world, like the ones I create, I do Churches.  The churches prey on men's insecurities rather than respond to their actual needs for salvation.

[yammahoper]

In the real world, worship of Gods allowed man to cover all his insecurities.  In the fiction of a game, the Gawds provide REAL power through magic.

Because of this, I imagine dedication to a gawd would be near fundamentally extremist MOST of the time with no other gawd suffered by the churches/temples/whatever.

The spelless peopns of the world would probably continue t hedge their bets and keep it secret from their priest.

* blink *

Okay, well . . . hmm . . . I think I better not respond to this topic much.  Except to say, I don't agree with all of you said, Yammahoper.

In a fantasy world, like the ones I create, I do Churches.  The churches prey on men's insecurities rather than respond to their actual needs for salvation.

I have no problem with churches preying on their followers insecurities.  If the gawd in question allows it, it will be done.  No sacrifice is to small, blah blah blah.

But will you imagine how loyal and dedicated spell casting priest of a faith would be?  The weild and feel their masters power and purpose every day.

A priest might fall in one faith and rise in another.  The world is a vast place after all.  Yet I think that would be the exception, not the norm.

[Right Wing Wacko]

I allow my PC's to serve pantheons of deities... or single gods, as they wish, and decide on base lists after that.
Although we normally don't get super-detailed with religions.

[RandalThor]

I tend to go with Temujin on this:

The non-priestly masses generally at least give lip service to all the gods of their pantheon, with at least one of them being a bit of a favorite, generally. (Like the blacksmith would primarily revere the god of metal and earth, but he knows (KNOWS) that the goddess of air and light is real too, so in the case of having to go on an airship he will very likely be sending a prayer her way.)

For preists, I say they have a "calling" - where one god speaks to/through them and feel the divine touch. This generates in them the desire to be closer to this god, and while they know those other gods exist, this one god is the only god for them, no matter the situation. Do I think it impossible for a priest to be the conduit of more than one god? No, but they would feel a bit like the only barbie-doll in an all girl orphanage. (Provided that the barbie was alive and could feel anything at all.  ) I believe that gods, by their very nature of having/wanting worshippers, are the most egotistical beings in the universe, and not prone to doing a lot of sharing. Even the "good" ones.

[Marc R]

A lot of life, and gaming, exists in perspective.

I've played a highly religious, god focused paladin, I've played a Mage who mocked priests for selling their souls cheap to a demon for spells, I've been a believer in a space master world where religion was considered synonymous with ignorant savagery, or an atheist in a world where such opinions got you burned at the stake. . .there's as many answers as there are gameworlds x the number of characters you can play in those worlds.

That said, I've done a Greece-like game, where there were limitations in play, namely you could not cast spells over 10th level, without making a choice. . .as a lower level priest you could cast any cleric/channeling list, but if you wanted those 11+ level spells you had to choose, and then you were limited to just the sub set of Cleric+Channeling that fit to the god you devoted yourself to. . .so pantheon priest allowed broadness, but to get the high level spells you eventually had to choose one god to devote yourself to, and that set your lists for 11+ level on. . . you still respected the rest of the pantheon, and might pray to them (or cast spells on the lists associated to them, in their name) but all your mighty works, and your first loyalty, lay with one god in particular.

Thats just one way of going about it, the GM could just as easily have left the pantheon concept in play without that limit, just the color/flavor of your prayers would tie to varied gods by spell. . .like you'd send a message in Hermes name, but call lightning down in Zeus' name.

[Elton Robb]

But will you imagine how loyal and dedicated spell casting priest of a faith would be?

Yes. Yes I do.

[mocking bird]

In the real world, worship of Gods allowed man to cover all his insecurities.  In the fiction of a game, the Gawds provide REAL power through magic.

Because of this, I imagine dedication to a gawd would be near fundamentally extremist MOST of the time with no other gawd suffered by the churches/temples/whatever.

The spelless peopns of the world would probably continue t hedge their bets and keep it secret from their priest.

As Arioch pointed out, henotheism was the norm.  While individuals may worship a single god, as a culture a variey of gods were often recognized.  Each city or culture had its own pantheon that went to the war with their respective cities and if the city lost the battle, its chosen deity was defeated as well.  Since the pantheons were so closely related to the culture outlawing the worship of certain deities would not be that much of a stretch.

However in a gaming setting, channeling implies direct contact and  involvement with a deity.  As such I would find it difficult for gods to 'share' their chosen vessels.  So I would have to disagree with yamma as well in that worshipping one god would not be extremist at all but accepted and fairly common.  The temples were dedicated to an individual deity with a specialized clergy.  Also that in a henotheistic setting, fundamentalism as it is interpreted today would be an alien concept as it really could not be applied.

[providence13]

So I was wondering how in your game do you deal with a PC that worships more then one god? Do they have more base lists? IMO they should have more duties but is this so in your game?

I stumbled on this late, but thought it was interesting.
In my game, there are certain spheres of control that various Powers will allow nearly anyone access, even if they don't actively worship. These are so base and general that anyone could attempt to call on that Power for aid.

If a Power opposes undead, for example, then perhaps just speaking the name of that Power, reciting scripture, reading from a certain Holy scroll could enable a bonus on Ritual of Repulsions Rune (effectively) in the book, written in a Magical Language that isn't exactly understood by the average farmer, but they might be able to recite the words. This way, people may not be completely dedicated to a Power, but by acknowledging their sphere of control/not being opposed to the faith... even the List-less masses could try a Rune or "Simple to follow, easy instructions, terms are available, no salesman will visit your home"... spell. 

These should also have a minimum to Spell Failure and a minimum upper threshold of ability. Repulsions that affects 1 or 2 lvls of undead.

[Witchking20k]

I view multiple deities as being fine as long as their spheres of influence are reasonably well aligned.