Topic: How much to charge for spell casting from an NPC?

[alloowishus]

Would I just use the cost for embedding a rune paper?

[Spectre771]

I don't think I understand the question.  You want to know how much a PC would pay an NPC to cast a spell?  I can say I've never run into this.

[nash]

I usually roughly ball park level of spell * level of caster in either GP or SP.

Otherwise it's side quest time.  Which is a lot more fun.

[alloowishus]

I don't think I understand the question.  You want to know how much a PC would pay an NPC to cast a spell?  I can say I've never run into this.

You've never had a party in need of healing beyond their abilities?

[jdale]

Speaking for myself, I've never had an NPC healer available to cast spells for payment....

[Hurin]

My general rule is spell level squared, in gold (RM2) or silver (RMU).

[Jengada]

Man, did I struggle with this for years. Healing, identifying, etc. - the party never had all of those skills. I have a system that I'm pretty happy with, but it looks heavy at first glance.
First is "base cost," a measure of the local economy. It's the sum of four costs: medium horse, in SP + heavy meal in TP + full chain armor, in SP + composite bow, in SP. Divide by 200. If you're just using Character Law prices, this comes out to 0.77 SP.
Second, multiply this by the level of the NPC spell caster.
Third, if the caster is 0-2 levels higher than the spell, multiply by 2. If the caster is 3-5 levels higher, multiply by 1.5.
Fourth, if the caster is over 10th level, double the result you just got.
Sometimes I adjust based on the type of spell being requested, and local availability. For example, there's a city with lots of seers in it, so the cost of a scrying spell is probably lower, maybe 80% of what the formula gives.
(This is also my basis for computing the cost of making magic items, but that's a bit more involved.)

[pastaav]

There is a good discussion about this Trasure Law for RMU. The number of NPC spell users that will reject a montly salary to isntead sit around waiting for random visits from adventurers that have rune papers that need enchantment will in most settings be zero.

[MisterK]

There is a good discussion about this Trasure Law for RMU. The number of NPC spell users that will reject a montly salary to isntead sit around waiting for random visits from adventurers that have rune papers that need enchantment will in most settings be zero.

You can have established structures that provide spellcasting services for a fee - temples are a good example, but magic colleges (or any centre of magical learning) can fit in as well. However, in most cases, I believe they would provide the casting service directly (and not under the eyes of the PCs), not inscribe anything on a rune paper.

[Jengada]

There is a good discussion about this Trasure Law for RMU. The number of NPC spell users that will reject a montly salary to isntead sit around waiting for random visits from adventurers that have rune papers that need enchantment will in most settings be zero.

Mages and mage schools are often compared to real-world scientists and academics. Someone has to be paying that monthly salary, and there are always scientists out there who have to scrap for every bit of salary. So there's likely to be someone, somewhere who maybe isn't top-rung and will do a one-off spell for a fee. They'll just charge accordingly, especially if it means their other work has to be put off a day.
As a scientist working on grant funding, but who also gets requests to do "extra" projects, I was taught to estimate how much time and $ the extra bit will cost, and then double that. It covers the different possibilities of doing the extra, but not falling too far behind on the other work. The person who taught me that was right, and I've very rarely been told that the person asking for extra won't pay that doubled cost.

If I were the PC looking for a caster, I would be asking how much their monthly salary is, and basing my offer on that. Or do they have an apprentice who can "practice" but casting this for me? What became of the spell casters who didn't get this guy's job? Maybe I can get one of them to do it. Or go to the person employing this caster on a monthly salary, and ask them if you can rent their mage for one spell. Pay them, with an add-on for them.

All of that is more "how" than "how much" though, and the question was about how much. The "how" would affect that.

[nash]

There is a good discussion about this Trasure Law for RMU. The number of NPC spell users that will reject a montly salary to isntead sit around waiting for random visits from adventurers that have rune papers that need enchantment will in most settings be zero.

But that's not the question.  The question is are there any casters who are happy to take some money for a few minutes of side work?  Like the numbers we are talking about here are insane.

If someone came up to me and asked me to write a 5 minute program for $500... done.

The hard part is getting access to the caster; finding the caster who can cast the spell (and what that means in game terms).

[Thot]

Well, it can't be that expensive, since enchanting items costs in the range of a few dozen silver pieces per day, according to RMU Treasure Law.

So if mages earn something along the lines of their level in silver pieces per day, then you can divide that number by the number of spells they should be able to cast sustainably each day, and have your price. A 20th level caster with 100 power points regeneration per day would thus charge something like 4 silver pieces for casting one level 20 spell. Add some inconvenience fees as you like, but that should be the order of magnitude.

And I haste to say: That doesn't sound like much, but it's a pretty comfortable living.

[Spectre771]

I don't think I understand the question.  You want to know how much a PC would pay an NPC to cast a spell?  I can say I've never run into this.

You've never had a party in need of healing beyond their abilities?

OK, that makes more sense.  The question was rather vague.  It is rare that our party needs to hire a healer.  They usually have herbs, Herb Lore, Region Lore, Foraging, First Aid, etc.  I also give out herbs/medicines for specialized healing, or at least present the opportunity to acquire the medicines.  Our GMs, including me, always find a way to reward the party with healing herbs/medicines.  RM is very deadly with crits and it's usually not even possible to get back to town to find a healer.

However, identifying magic items, enchanting, or so on, I use several methods, the common one is exchange of services.  The NPC will have a need that needs to be filled.

This question has been asked in one form or another numerous times in several threads  "How much should I charge for... <repairs, healing, identifying, crafting, a horse, lodging, a scout, etc.>  The answer is always dependent upon your game world and your GM.  Does your GM give out a lot of coin/gems for rewards?  The party is probably very wealthy and can afford higher fees.  Is the GM more of an item giver and not so much coin?  Then trading items may be the method or exchange of services. 

What is the level of the spell?  What is the level of the caster?  Are you in a farming town or a large city?  Is magic common in the region or really hard to find?  What is the local economy based on?  In my gaming world, the only magic that exists is from Elemental Companion, so there wouldn't be a "healer" in my world, but there would be highly trained and well stocked apothecaries.  In that case, I use the base cost of the herbs from the tables from the various companions.

[nash]

Well, it can't be that expensive, since enchanting items costs in the range of a few dozen silver pieces per day, according to RMU Treasure Law.

The funny thing about treasure law is it goes to a lot pain to talk about not being able to hire spell casters... then 1/3 of the book is about producing magic items by hiring spell casters.

So if mages earn something along the lines of their level in silver pieces per day, then you can divide that number by the number of spells they should be able to cast sustainably each day, and have your price. A 20th level caster with 100 power points regeneration per day would thus charge something like 4 silver pieces for casting one level 20 spell. Add some inconvenience fees as you like, but that should be the order of magnitude.

And I haste to say: That doesn't sound like much, but it's a pretty comfortable living.

That is an economically correct solution. 

The reason I would say to shift the prices up a coin or two is because you don't want PCs running to spellcasters for every problem they have.   Otherwise the question of why everyone (every moderately wealthy individual at least) isn't hiring casters every day.  You want it to be a rare and special thing.

The requirement to make people do a quest provides a great barrier to entry.

[MisterK]

The reason I would say to shift the prices up a coin or two is because you don't want PCs running to spellcasters for every problem they have.   Otherwise the question of why everyone (every moderately wealthy individual at least) isn't hiring casters every day.  You want it to be a rare and special thing.

Actually, that is setting-specific. I know that I only want it to be a rare and special things sometimes, when the campaign theme and dynamics call for it. Other times, I want it to be pretty much the thing you do when you're in a bind.
Example one : PCs are in a coastal village of northwestern Saralis, days away from the nearest town which is itself nothing special to talk about, even though it is the Count's seat of power. Spellcasters are rare, and high-level spellcasters even more so. I am firmly in the first case.
Example two : PCs are scions of noble families in Rhakhaan, and are all affiliated to a power structure in addition (the Unified Orhan Church, the Imperial Legions, or the Colleges Uscurac, respectively). They are wealthy enough that they don't count money. I am firmly in the second case.
As a matter of fact, both are in the same world (Shadow World), in the same continent (Jaiman), at the same time and in the same timeline. But in two different campaigns.

But to make it short, I split magical services into two categories : those that are easily accessible, and those that aren't. For the first kind, you just have to go to the nearest provider and discuss the price and that will not set you back significantly. For the second kind, you first have to find who can do it, then find how you can explain your request, and then find how you can make them consider it worth their time. The boundary between first and second kind is completely campaign-specific.

So, to answer the OP : there is no answer to your question beyond the one you can give yourself. No one else is in your shoes, even if they use the same ruleset.

[Cory Magel]

Would I just use the cost for embedding a rune paper?

I our games this is nearly always a situation where that NPC says... "I need you to do me a favor...."

[pastaav]

There is a good discussion about this Trasure Law for RMU. The number of NPC spell users that will reject a montly salary to isntead sit around waiting for random visits from adventurers that have rune papers that need enchantment will in most settings be zero.

But that's not the question.  The question is are there any casters who are happy to take some money for a few minutes of side work?  Like the numbers we are talking about here are insane.

If someone came up to me and asked me to write a 5 minute program for $500... done.

I think you are missing the point with the Trasure Law discussion. The person paying salary to the spell caster expect him to save his power points for his real work. In essence, you would be paying the spell caster for the risk that his lose his job and not for 5 minutes of work. Either we are speaking about personal favor makes it worth it for the spell caster, or the spell caster thinks it important enough that he will ask his employer for permission to have less magic power awailable. Catching the spell user at the right time when his employer is away or negotiate a private visit after the "workday" is over could change the picture, but such is rather setting specific.

We could also have settings were the spell user negotiate they can spend a fraction of their powerpoint each day on extra work, but I would expect the price be rather high on those services since the number of power points will be even more limited and the spell user might want the power points for personal use.

Obviously there also must be a market for recharging magic items, in most settings I expect that to be apprentices living with the Alchemist and having recharing as their main work duty. If the setting have lots of rune paper use for an area there will be a business built around it similar to what the alchemists does, but otherwise you need a good reason for getting help in the first place.

[Thot]

[...]
The reason I would say to shift the prices up a coin or two is because you don't want PCs running to spellcasters for every problem they have.   Otherwise the question of why everyone (every moderately wealthy individual at least) isn't hiring casters every day.  You want it to be a rare and special thing.
[...]

Well, if people are poor, they can't afford it, that's why.

Problem of course, is PC spellcasters, who will then just earn that kind of money.

Rare and very special spellcasters, you get those in settings where spellcasters are so rare that you cannot buy their services, no matter what you pay. Say, only 5 Wizards in Middle Earth, or maybe 500 spellcasters (most of which of low level) in the whole kingdom with 5 million inhabitats. But that is not RMU's standard assumption.

[Hurin]

I'm not sure how many medieval guildsmen were working on salary, but it would be few. Who would be paying that salary? Wage labour was more a feature of industrial work than of the medieval guild system. And the guild system, I think, should be the model for the town healer and probably other NPCs capable of casting spells.

The Guildsmen (and women) would generally own their own shop, and if some rando came in to ask if they could get a single spell cast, I imagine the shopkeeper would be happy to make some extra silver.

[MisterK]

I'm not sure how many medieval guildsmen were working on salary, but it would be few.

Actually, it was probably region-specific. In some places, guildsmen were free masters, and as such, their own employers. This is the model you assume. In other cases, however, most guildsmen would be bonded craftsmen and, as such, not free to provide service to just anyone - providing service would require the approval of their lord.
You can check HarnWorld, for instance, for a good example of that kind of dual system.

And I would expect that, the rarer the talent or field of expertise, the more likely the master would be bonded, unless they are powerful enough to just say to the lord "no thanks, I'll be my own master". Being bonded is a pretty comfy deal, because you are guaranteed lodging, board, tools, workplace, and a decent revenue. Which, all things considered, is more than most non-bonded craftsmen could expect (the last part, especially, was highly variable and subject to many vagaries). In addition, free craftsmen would require a steady stream of work orders, which is typically not what you could expect of spellcasting services.

I would think that most spellcasters would be bonded in some way, either to the local lord, a temple, or some kind of institution (the local city guard, the magical college...). Free casters could exist only 1) if they provide services that are in regular demand so as to ensure a steady income or 2) if they do not depend on spellcasting for their lifestyle expenses. I would not expect either to be the more frequent case, and free casters would likely only be available in major cities where demand is large enough - once again, you cannot rely on powerful patrons, since they would likely have their own bonded spellcasters for regular services, or some kind of arrangement with an existing structure.

This is not meant to say that free casters do not exist outside large cities. They do, but they do not provide spellcasting services for a living. Most of them either are adventurers themselves, or have a personal agenda and the means to support themselves without peddling their services. For those, we are back to the "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" kind of deal.

Your best bet is the people who *are* spellcasters but have a mundane occupation (the archetypal sage, scribe, or similar literate urban profession). The thing is, those people are usually not known for their spellcasting abilities, and might even have a good reason to keep them under wraps. You can access pretty much any kind of spell that way, but how does the provider know that you will not betray them when it is convenient to do so ?