Topic: 35 professions?

[markc]

 Do you think 35 playable professions is too many for a combined space-fantasy game? [I do have 2 non-player professions also so the total is 37]

 The break down is:
25 Spell Casters
4 Arcane
2+ Psi [Semi-Psi can modify any profession]
10 Pure Arms

MDC

[providence13]

For me... Yes. That is a whole lot of Profs! 

Since you brought it up, I'm hoping that you don't mind a bit o pontification.
If those are too many Profs, then a solution, if you're looking for one, could be in Culture-Timeline skills.
A fighter is a fighter.. a thief is a thief. Does it matter that they could be a few hundred years apart?
The ancient fighter will have Culture, Adolescence, Background Options, Talents/Flaws, Training Packages, etc. for someone in that timeline.
The more modern, High-tech fighter might have the exact same class with only some skill, Cat and "Culture, Adolescence, Background Options, Talents/Flaws, Training Packages, etc" differences, but they're still a fighter.

This could apply to all Profs's and might cut a few down.. For the others, well, do you really need them? TP's and other mods could handle alot IMHO.

But I'm not judging! It's probably a blast.. For me, I would have a hard time deciding on a character to play.

[markc]

 No problem input is always welcome. I already went through all the RMSS and SM:P books and threw out the professions that do not fit the setting. I did not use RMFRP: Fire and Ice as I will introduce them at a much later date in the time line. I have 3 ages/times that I could start the game and I will let the players decide when they want to play.
 Yes I have only 1 fighter, 1 thief etc but the other professions are fairly specific and have a niche that IMO a player might want to play. There maybe 1 or 2 that will not be picked but IMO they are needed to round out the  profession field and I do not think a TP and a TP: Spell list(s) would work. But I will go back and take a look and see if I can thin them out any more than I have.

Thanks
MDC

[Emaughan]

No it is not too many, if and only if, there is a good degree of balance.  I like variety and it gives potential players many options to choose from, but if the balance is off one could end up with many wasted classes that will never see game play.  Dream weaver is a great example of a class you will never see as a PC...  "Ok, while the rest of the group is preping to attack the Orc patrol, I'm going to take a nap and enter the dream world".  So with each of the classes that you make, ask yourself would it be a fun to play and not too much of headache for the gamemaster to deal with (i.e. no PCs can be Seers or Astrologers in my games - too good at killing the mystery).  A few "off" classes might be good to have for NPC potential even if they would not work well as a PC.

Anyway, more is always good as long as it does not shatter game balance or add too much complexity.  So adding more options (classes, races, weapons, spells, etc.) gives more variety (good for the game if all are balanced) but increases the chance of imbalances being introduced.

 "Why can't I combine my low level spell of infinite ammo found on page 1233 with my ultra LAW nuclear rocket luncher found in the 6th volume of Missle launchers pg. 389!?  After all I am a Techno Mage 3rd rank with the Aldarian Merc options."

[Emaughan]

I forgot to ask - is this a possible product that may some day see light?  I would love to see a new and improved "Dark Space".  Loads of potential there and it would be the perfect setting to have tons of options with character classes, spells, weapons, equipment, modifications, monsters, tech levels vs. "magic" levels and the interaction of the two.  You could take a product like that very far!

[Steve_990]

No amount is too many for me!

As long as they all have an area they fit, it works. Even if a player is overwhelmed with options, I find there are usually a few questions you can ask to narrow it down for them...

[TerryTee]

One can always throw in loads and loads of Casters to add flavor in all different dimensions. I have not played RM in years, so I’m not sure if 25 Caster are many or not. Split between the Realms it does not seem too many.
10 professions to cover everything else do not seem like much at all. Let me just take a shot:
-Figher/Armasman
-Thief/Criminal
-LEO
-A couple of different Techs
-An engineer or two
-Con artist/gambler/trickster
-Explorer/scout/ranger
-Healer/doctor/med tech
That list quickly adds up, and it has combined a lot of different professions into one.
No, 10 non-casters is not too many.

-Terry

[markc]

I forgot to ask - is this a possible product that may some day see light?  I would love to see a new and improved "Dark Space".  Loads of potential there and it would be the perfect setting to have tons of options with character classes, spells, weapons, equipment, modifications, monsters, tech levels vs. "magic" levels and the interaction of the two.  You could take a product like that very far!

I am a very slow writer do to back problems but when and if I do get it done I might submit it to ICE to see if they would like to publish it.

 As to the Dark Space angle. I will have to go back and look at it but my main goal is to have a setting that can combine the Fantasy and Space rules effectively and in a way that makes sense. I also like my games to have a possible dark nature in some aspect so that will be included. I also try and have many plot lines going at once so the PC's do not feel like they are the ones moving history.
 I think that I have a good setting idea but that could only be me and it really depends on what others think of it. They could hate it or love it depending on who they are.

MDC

[Emaughan]

What approach were you going to take on mixing the two.  Are you going to take the Arthor C. Clark approach of any tech that is advanced enough becomes indistingishable from magic.  A great example of this were the techno mages in Babylon 5.  Magic is not really magic but advanced science.  Angels and demons turn out to be aliens - possibly extradimensional - but not supernatural. Everything has a "rational" explination.  Or, are you going to go the rout of science and magic are two completely seperate entities that are in opposition to each other.  Arcanium was a PC game that had a great backround theory for the game itself.  As one introduced more magic, mechanical principles started to become more unpredictable (friction, inertia, amps, etc...) thus your character could either go a magic route or a mechanical route - the two together were not a good mix.  Finally, a world were magic and science are different from each other, but very compatible.  Magic can be used to make technology more potent and science could be used to better understand and utilize magic.  There are many anime comics where this is the  standard - science and technology completly mixed together.

This is a very cool genere to explore and if done well would be outstanding for an RPG.  This is also probably the toughest to do well.  The volume needed to properly cover such a setting would be huge.  Rules for spells, computers, nanos, aliens, combat (magical, melee, ranged, vehical, mounted, urban, high tech, low tech, medium tech, cyberspace, psi, zero gee, did I miss any), spying, cultures, space travel, alternate dimensions, cyborgs, economics, genetics, mutations, professions, robots, AIs, Golems, zombies, sharks with magical laser beams coming out of their eyes, etc... Don't forget the huge equipment list, spell lists, and "monster" lists.  Make sure that the rules are simple, realistic, flexible without being easily breakable, and fun.  Now add all that and remember to keep it all balanced to avoid tempting the munchkins.

You would be my hero (and I'd pay money for the product) if such a project were brought to completion.

[markc]

 I am going the more magic is compatible with tech but if you get to much metal in your body you will have a very hard time casting spells.
 I am thinking about having 3 different play era's; the first with little magic, the second with more and the third with the most. So I am going to have to have a good timeline that explains the " max magic level" or "max rank in spell list" as well as other tech advances.
 As per equipment I will generally refer people to ....and a 10 Foot Pole as well as the SM:P Equipment Man. I will have some special equipment and I am going to have to redefine some equipment as determined by the setting.
 As per profession's and other stuff; I will have a section that explains the modified creation rules as well as mods to each profession if they need any. I will also have a skill list by era as well as a profession list by era.

 Yes it will be a lot of work but I am taking my time and really thinking about every option there is or could be.

 Also if I do submit it to publishing I plan on submitting it to ICE, The Guild Companion and Defendi to see who if anyone wants it and just what I and they have to do to it. I do not know about the length but I think it will be quite long and may have to publish some just web enhancements to go with the main book. That is if it ever gets that far and people like it.

MDC

[providence13]

I am going the more magic is compatible with tech but if you get to much metal in your body you will have a very hard time casting spells.

MDC, I'm sure you have a system for this. But it reminded me a bit of the CIRS  (curse) game mechanic from Cyberspace. Cybernetic Implantation Rejection Syndrome. The "system" is already there. Just mix it around a bit for magic use.

I always thought that it was a bit harsh as low/average Empathy people would CIRS  from a few implants.
This was before PDA's, real cell phones, bluetooth heads walking around having conversations with people only they could hear reply... ok, maybe they were right.

But if the more implants decreased a Stat that mattered to Ess/Ment/Chan, that would definitely hamper its use.

[Emaughan]

I am going the more magic is compatible with tech but if you get to much metal in your body you will have a very hard time casting spells.

That's sooo 70s.  Ya, Steve Austin had a lot of metal in his body as 6,000,000.00 dolar cyborg, but current ideas on the future of cybernetics points to carbon composites and artificially grown components.  No metal needed (at least not more than what is found naturally in the body).  Now if you had electricity being something that can screw up magic, that would be a real limiting factor in a high tech society - or magic messing up electrical flow, or both.  Another way to limit magic and/or tech would be social prohibitions.  Just as Travel limited certain weapon techs based on each planets laws, or Fading Suns limited certain techs and "magic" based on religious restrictions, you could make using one or the other very risky to an PC.

I remember the system that cyberspace used to limit artificial enhancements.  It was well thought out and added balance.  I hated it.  It was very clear that it was purely an in your face game balancing mechanic - it did not make sense to me.  I realize that it was barrowed from a theme used in some SciFi where a person begins to loose their humanity as they become more "artificial".  Being a health care profesional, I see no evidence that this will occure as one gains artificial parts.  Maybe if you have to replace part of the brain (i.e. Robocop) there might be some issues, but other parts - naaahh.  Either you have a soul or you don't, I don't think one looses pieces of their soul with lost pieces of their body. 

[markc]

I am going the more magic is compatible with tech but if you get to much metal in your body you will have a very hard time casting spells.

That's sooo 70s.  Ya, Steve Austin had a lot of metal in his body as 6,000,000.00 dolar cyborg, but current ideas on the future of cybernetics points to carbon composites and artificially grown components.  No metal needed (at least not more than what is found naturally in the body).  Now if you had electricity being something that can screw up magic, that would be a real limiting factor in a high tech society - or magic messing up electrical flow, or both.  Another way to limit magic and/or tech would be social prohibitions.  Just as Travel limited certain weapon techs based on each planets laws, or Fading Suns limited certain techs and "magic" based on religious restrictions, you could make using one or the other very risky to an PC.

I remember the system that cyberspace used to limit artificial enhancements.  It was well thought out and added balance.  I hated it.  It was very clear that it was purely an in your face game balancing mechanic - it did not make sense to me.  I realize that it was barrowed from a theme used in some SciFi where a person begins to loose their humanity as they become more "artificial".  Being a health care profesional, I see no evidence that this will occure as one gains artificial parts.  Maybe if you have to replace part of the brain (i.e. Robocop) there might be some issues, but other parts - naaahh.  Either you have a soul or you don't, I don't think one looses pieces of their soul with lost pieces of their body. 

I think I have a way around this problem but I will have to let my prof-readers and play testers give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

 Thanks for the thoughts and comments.
MDC

[providence13]

Emaughan,
That's a good point.
Luke's power didn't appear to diminish after he lost his hand....

[ReaperWolf]

That's a good point. Luke's power didn't appear to diminish after he lost his hand....

But he DID become more susceptible to the Dark Side of the Force.

Simple replacements shouldn't incur much of a hit to your Humanity/Empathy/Essence but enhancements should.

>>ReaperWolf

[Emaughan]

Simple replacements shouldn't incur much of a hit to your Humanity/Empathy/Essence but enhancements should.

But why?  Becoming more powerful may add new temptations, but I see no reason why it would make one less "human".  Now taking your brain pattern and downloading it into a machine - that would have a real negative on ones humanity (at least the imprinted pattern's humanity).

Here is what I am saying.  Take any modern body replacement part and explain why it lessons the humanity of someone who uses it.  Artificial legs, arms, glass eye, heart, which would you say takes away from a persons true essence?  If your an atheist, all the body is is a biomechanical machine, so what would it matter if some of those machine parts are replaced and improved?  If you believe in God and the soul, even having many parts lost or having them replaced does not take anything away from that person's soul.

[Emaughan]

But he DID become more susceptible to the Dark Side of the Force.

Seeing that those who followed the "good side" of the force were required to be celebit - I would choose the dark side in heart beat!  I would not need to loose any body parts to convince me it was the better choice.