Topic: A bunch of SM2 vs. SMP questions from a newbie

[Lord Rocket]

Okay kids, help me out a bit here. I just bought the SM2 boxed set from our local EBay equivalent, and I have a few questions regarding it and how it differs from SMP. I did google them both and looked through a bunch of reviews, but couldn't find any satisfactory answers to these questions, so forgive me if there's already a site that talks about this stuff in depth.
Please also bear in mind that I'm still waiting for the boxed set to arrive. I do have a passing familiarity with the ICE system by means of the Rolemaster Express PDF I nabbed from RPGNow (or possibly RPGDriveThru, I forget) when they did that free download thing awhile back, but baby talk regarding rules where necessary please.

OK, firstly (and most importantly), how easy would it be to just drop stuff in from SMP to SM2? I mean, if I have to get a bunch of supplements, I'd prefer to get more recent stuff if possible. Specifically, I'm wondering about SMP Blaster Law. I know someone who I could, ahem, 'borrow' a copy from, and all those detailed attack charts will probably be useful should I get some folks together.
But, I also understand that SM2 lacks detailed spaceship combat rules in the box - would I need to get Star Strike for that, or would one of the Tech Laws be a worthwhile bet? I mean, presumably basic task resolution would be the same as always (d100+bonus, check chart if necessary), so is there anything stopping else me from just putting in whichever systems I like? I guess computer hacking rules will have changed a bit too between '88 and '00, yes?

Actually, talking about Blaster Law, I did get a chance to have a quick look through a while back, and I noticed that you'd actually take a bit less hits damage from the lasers and stuff if naked, than if you were wearing low end futuristic armour. Steel plate seemed to be a pretty good option too. Eh? Or was there something I'm missing? Obviously I didn't get to sit down and really study it.

On that note, (oh man my segues are extra good today) which system is more lethal? And which produces more powerful characters (ie. more skill ranks, greater OB and DB, etc.)? I like low powered lethality, because I'm an arbitrary sort of GM and that makes it easier to justify myself. Hey, how 'bout that skill system? Which version has the most skills? Are most of them 'compatible' - that is, they have obvious analogues cross versions?

Anyway, that's probably enough questions for now. Thanks in advance for any help you care to give, by the way.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

SM2 is based on RM2 (which is now rereleased as RMC) and SMP is based on RMFRP. This being the case, I would suggest reading the first post of this thread -- http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=7163.0

While the details are different, the general themes of the differences will be the same.

The important thing to remember is that skill lists are biggest differences between the two. SMP has a number of other difference due to its built in setting, but things can usually be shifted from one to the other quite easily.

I cannot answer about ship combat rules as I don't remember and my books are currently packed up in preparation for a move to a new house (still renting, but the new house has air conditioning!!!  ) over the course of the next 9-10 day.

Blaster Law -- one of the few things essentially untouched over the course of SM (and RM) are the combat tables (cannot remember if SM2 has truncated ones like RMX does or full ones like Arms Law). But in any case, you should be able to use Blaster Law without a problem.

[markc]

 Welcome to the forums.

 As Rasyr said above the article on RM2/C/X vs RMSS/FRP will help a lot. But on the SM2 vs SM:P side of things I can say that Psi is one area they are both very different. In SM2 the Psi skills sre presented like spell lists from RMX and Psi skills in SMP are treated as seperate skills. I like to use the SMP Psi skills in a fantasy game as they are so different than magic.
 On Starship combat, I do not remember for sure if it is in the SM2 books because I use Star Strike and Armored Assault, even in my SM:P game. Why? Well starship combat is treated abstractly in SM:P and I like more of the number crunching/war game aspect of star ship combat. BTW AA is for ground combat and vehicle and SS is for starcraft and space combat. You could even adapt BattleTech Mech combat to SM with a little work or AA has mech combat also but has a different flavor.

 If you have anymore Q's post them or send me a PM and I will get back to you.

MDC

[Lord Rocket]

Cheers guys for your help.

OK, so, if I have this right:

SMP has more skills compared to SM2
Anyone can take any skill as per their profession
The classes gain more OB points as they go along. Presumably they also advance faster in those skills most applicable to them, since they're lacking hard bonuses to 'skill categories'
Presumably that means starting OBs are lower in SM2?
Having ranks in skill categories in SMP means characters are going to be more generally competent than in SM2
Gaining levels is therefore more meaningful in SM2

I'm still wondering about the efficacy of energy weapons versus medieval armour types. It really doesn't sit right with me. On that note, what can I do about it if I remain unsatisfied? I don't want to have to rejig 30+ attack tables to fit my prejudices better.

One more thing: I see magic users get a lot of play in Rolemaster. That's fine in fantasy, but I prefer to keep magic out of my SF; doing so won't emasculate the game, will it?

OT:

...currently packed up in preparation for a move to a new house (still renting, but the new house has air conditioning!!!  ) over the course of the next 9-10 day.

Mate, I moved overseas to get away from the heat. I completely understand why you'd want to move to a house with A/C!

[RandalThor]

OT OT:

OT:

...currently packed up in preparation for a move to a new house (still renting, but the new house has air conditioning!!!  ) over the course of the next 9-10 day.

Mate, I moved overseas to get away from the heat. I completely understand why you'd want to move to a house with A/C!

I have been steadily moving north to get away from the heat of Florida. Looking into moving to Germany next.

Back OT:

For the high-tech weapons vs. low-tech armor you could go with one of the alternate crit ideas, like: wrapp around crits, or just say that the hits are doubled.

Removing magic from SM2/SM:P will hurt the game not at all.

[markc]

 I come from the point of view of the RMSS player so I may be a bit biased, but here is my take on your last Q's.

 IMO:
1) Combat skills [or core profession skills] are higher to start in SM:P then in SM2. But in SM2 level bonus to skills can be quite high at later levels. Note in SM:P there are no level bonuses to skills, instead you get a bonus up frount determined by your profession. In SM2 you get a % bonus per level to some of your skills. The Level bonus has an upperlimit of 60 in SM2 where in SM:P the highest begining bonus to a category is +25.   
2) SM:P does have more skills but you can still do the same things. What I mean is that in SM2 the skills are broader then in SM:P.
3) It is one of the great things about the RM and SM systems in that anyone can take any skill. The time and effort it takes one profession vs another will be different. For example using a soldier and a psionics profession the soldier may have a weapon skill at a cost of 1/5 DP and the psionics profession may have it at 9 DP. DP= development points and are a way to track how much time and effort a PC requires to pick up a skill. The #/# notation means that the fighter can buy 2 ranks per level the first costs 1 DP and the second costs 5 DP. On the other hand the psionics PC can only buy 1 rank per level at a cost of 9 DP.
3a) Note that the DP gained in SM2 and SM:P differ do to the reduction or expansion of skills. In general I like the SM:P way as since there are more skills you can get many differnt types of PC's of the same profession. Not that you will get the same PC's if each takes the same profession but it is more likely that they are different in SM:P.
4) Levels: Some professions gain a lot in SM:P do to the starting category bonus but in SM2 IMO the higher your level your "bonus" can add a lot to your skills. In SM2 each profession has a number of areas they get a bonus in so in thoes areas they will excell at higher levels but not each profession gets a bonus to offensive skills.
5) SM has rules for psi-powers in the box, you can ignore them if you want. There are no rules for magic in SM but if you do play a fantasy game of RM you will recognise the way the psi info is presented if you play SM2, in RMSS and SM:P they are dealt with differently.   
6) Armor Type 1: You are right that AT1 is very good. As a house rules I have people be AT-2 not AT-1 and reserve AT-1 for fast creatures only. You found one area that many GM's and players question and might decide to make a house rule. Once again it is a house rule that I use and is not official.
7) Weapons: IMO the weapon charts are dealt with fairly well in SM, I happen to use RMSS Firearm Law in my SM:P game. The charts in the book are grouped into one chart for all bladed weapons with mods for the type of weapon. Where if you use RM's Arms Law it has a unique chart for most weapons but you will have to use some mods for future armor as RM's Arms Law was designed for fantasy games. The same is true for Firearm Law but it adds some info for modern armors.
Deadlyness: Both systems are fairly deadly so I would run a couple of mock combats for the PC to get there legs as in general it is different from other systems. Also I use fate points that can be used to adjust the attack roll against the PC's. This is another house rule that is not in the books. If you have any other games that have fate points you can mod the rules and use them in SM. I highly recomend fate points as one good roll by the GM can kill a PC even if the PC does everything right.
9) Characters: In general it takes more time to create a PC in RM/SM then in other games so be prepaired to spend some time on it. In general I find at the begining it is easier for the GM to help 1 person, then the GM and the player help 2 other people. Another option I use is that players can take skills that the figureout do not work as they think they do or have very little to do with the game. I let players redo the PC DP expendatures up to 3 games from the first game. This is a pain but has really allowed some players to enjoy tha game a lot more than if they had kepted there first skills. If you do this have the players record their DP's for every level so they can go back and change things.

Hope that helps
MDC

[Wōdwulf Seaxaning]

Biased view here. Since you got SM2 stick with it . Old Skool Rules! No point in getting SM:P if you already have SM2.Unless you want to shell out a good amount of $$$ to do so which will help ICE. So I'm all for that ( I just prefer you spend it on SM2 PDFs & RMC products).Bwahahaha.

[Dark Mistress]

I would offer my views on it but I no longer remember all the differences. We started with SM2, switched to SMP and later made a hybrid system taking the best parts of each with a few house rules. Now i don't always remember which game has which rules as core. But I think the others covered it fairly well.

But I agree about the armor that was always one of the things that most stuck out to our group. I toyed with the idea of making custom charts for our group. But that would be a ton of work.

[Gallowglacht]

Hmmmm, I've seen a lot of people say they combine SM;P with SM2. Seeing as how I just bought the whole SM;P line, does someone want to put my mind at easy by telling me that SM;P works just fine on its own.

[Dark Mistress]

Yes it works just fine on it's own. It is more a matter of taste, I mean serously how many of us buy a game and then have no house rules at all? Typically their is always a couple of things you say, gee i would like this a little better like this or that. Just for us having two versions of SM we can do that with out making the rules ourselves just pick and choose the ones we like best.

[Gallowglacht]

Pfhew! Thanks.
Yeah I thought that was it. I house rule every game of course. I have had the misfortune of buying games that needed an overhaul rather than a houserule and quite a few I have ever even tried to play. I didn't get that impression from the Spacemaster I had seen, just a little worried in case everyone was using SM2 to fix the same "broken" element of SM:P. I know its silly and I know why it happened.

It happened because I'm full of that nervous energy that comes from buying something and having to wait 2 weeks to see if its as cool as you think it is.

Wait, was that the letterbox?*run*
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It wasn't the letterbox

[markc]

 I do not use SM2 eventhough I have it. The main reason most people like SM2 is because they love the SM2 setting and some that use SM:P love the SM2 setting.

MDC