Author Topic: some combat questions  (Read 7601 times)

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Offline Crypt

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 09:02:55 AM »
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The basic rules make spellcasting an easy thing

The basic rules make casting 2+ rnds spells + being hit and wounded impossible. (see "Casting spells in Combat" page 109.)

=> "if the spell takes multiple rounds, ....... then the spell is lost."


Offline munchy

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 12:32:58 PM »
I think this is not too hard a rule. We have used this and it worked quite well. This makes people reduce their casting time, taking a malus on their spell casting roll and therefore increasing the risk and the tension in the game - the stressful situation of combat becomes even more interesting. And a spell that requires more than one round if usually pretty effective it cast in combat thus the risk is definitely justifiable.
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Offline Crypt

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2008, 10:31:23 AM »
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I think that Dodge should apply 1/2 its bonus against all attacks, except the one specifically being dodged (that one gets full bonus), and Sudden Dodge should likely get full mod to DB against all attacks (cause it was sudden), but that is just me musing...

 i think you're right. I will use that.


Offline Crypt

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2008, 12:07:37 PM »
About OB modifications =

I don't see the logic behind the "+20 to OB versus a stunned foe."

Stunned characters already have 1/2 Parry and -50 to Dodge rolls, so to add +20 to his foe OB is illogical, IMHO.

In the same way i think suprise/downed/rear/flank etc bonuses should be DB maluses instead of OB bonuses.
It make target easier to hit because he has difficulties to defense himself.

The only bonus to OB that makes sense, IMHO, would be against an unconscious foe and by using more than a round to make a "fatality" attack. (you take your time to finish him.)

Do you see what i mean ?


Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2008, 12:45:11 PM »
bonus to OB == malus to DB

In the end, it is the same thing, just expressed differently.

Offline Crypt

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2008, 03:35:53 PM »
bonus to OB == malus to DB

In the end, it is the same thing, just expressed differently.

I don't agree.
For instance a -15 to Active DB is not the same as a +15 to OB.
If this malus is applied, for instance, as a Flank modifier, an unaware victim would not apply it because he would not have any active defense.


I will do that instead of the OB modifiers:
(active DB = everything which improves DB except armor, shield and special items.)
Flank : -15 to active DB
Rear : -20 to active DB & No Parry
Unaware of attack : no active DB
Stunned : 1/2 Parry; -50 to dodge roll   (yes the +20 to OB is no more.)

And add an OB modifier :
Finish an unconscious foe (using more than one round to finish him properly): +100 to OB ;  victim has no active defense.


----------------------------------------

As a bonus question i would ask:  why keep using the 1/2 OB from RM for Stunned characters ? Why not a straight malus ?
Or the opposite : why using straight malus actions like Concentration (-50 to maneuvers), -50 to maneuvers for stunned characters, .... instead of 1/2 skill ?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 04:05:29 PM by Crypt »


Offline jasonbrisbane

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2008, 04:05:27 PM »
bonus to OB == malus to DB

In the end, it is the same thing, just expressed differently.

I don't agree.
For instance a -15 to Active DB is not the same as a +15 to OB.
If this malus is applied, for instance, as a Flank modifier, an unaware victim would not apply it because he would not have any active defense.

Please explain how an UNAWARE victim is stunned without being in combat already?

If the victim is in combat, and gets stunned then attacks against them whilst they are stunned are at +20.
If they are not in combat, and thus not stunned, then there is no Stunned Bonus to any attack.

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Offline Crypt

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2008, 04:06:25 PM »
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Please explain how an UNAWARE victim is stunned without being in combat already?

There is no need to explain that.

You can be stunned by Mr A AND unaware of an attack from Mr B. (which is worse than being aware of a rear attack.)


Now please take note i've spoke about Flank + Unaware.
(Not Stunned + Unaware.)

Example of Flank + Unaware = you walk side by side with a friend then an hidden sorcerer takes control of him mentally. Your friend attacks your flank and you are "unaware" of this attack (maybe after a failed perception roll or the like). Or he suddenly slows his pace and attack your rear.

The same example with two sorcerers: the first one takes control of your friend, the second one casts a stunning spell on you => you are stunned, unaware of your friend attack and attacked to your flank or rear.

PS: If i can't do that in rpgs i'd prefer play video games  >:(  ....  ;D
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 04:30:48 PM by Crypt »


Offline Crypt

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2008, 07:30:15 AM »
another question :
would you allow this:

drawing weapon* + making a brawling attack (for instance a kick with a -50 malus) ?


* the 1 action version.


Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2008, 09:56:50 AM »
personally, I would.

Heck, personally, I would most likely move to the tactical system from RMX/RMC with a few minor changes.  ;D

Offline Witchking20k

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2008, 07:29:50 AM »
LOL.  I my self am a rules lush.  I love'em and leave'em based on my whims and the creativity of the players.  I would allow you to try to perform anything you could think of......but warn you of the difficulty of doing so.

As an observation about the stun OB vs DB talk.  The DB penalty applies to the defnders ability to take action to avoid being hit again.  The OB applies to the attackers ability to hit......which means they might have a clearer shot, or more time or any number of details that lead up to the actual attack making contact with the target.....the bonuses are representations of a lump of tactical advantages.
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2008, 07:32:01 AM »
Oh yes

And drawing a weapon and making a brawling attack!  Whats the wort that can happen.....?  A missed attack while the PC obviously feels vulnerable?  Myabe a fumble (which I would roll as an armed one)?
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Offline Karak_Nor

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2008, 07:52:04 AM »
These comments to do with the entire thread.  I know some of these have already been discussed, I?m just weighing and giving food for thought.  Anything I write here that is different from canon is obviously my house rule.

Dodge
A character can use Dodge in combat for their combat action.  The roll uses either x2 Ag or the Acrobatics/Tumbling skill on the Bonus Manoeuvre table.  This bonus or negative is added to 50 and the total of that modifies the characters DB.  Sudden Dodge would be the same except for the modifier of 25.  I would rule that the bonus would apply until the characters next action for both dodges.

I like to include the negative results as a character can trip or stumble, in which case it?s hard to recover under the pressure of combat.  I also like to give with one hand and slap them on the back of the head with the other.  If what are trying is successful and risky, I give just reward.s

If a player tried to Dodge/Sudden Dodge while stunned, I would only apply the -50 to the Acrobatics/Tumbling check.  The -50 from stun doesn?t affect the DB as DB is not a manoeuvre roll.

Rasyr I have the .pdfs of the main Rulebook and Martial Law.  Both say that you do not get the negative result from the bonus table when trying to Dodge/Sudden Dodge.  I brought them at the end of 2007 and the beginning of 2008.

Disengage
I would allow a character to only use Dodge to replace Parry when they try to disengage; Sudden Dodge couldn?t be used.  The biggest difference will be that the +50 is not added to DB.  If you read the A/T skill, it says you can roll on the Bonus Manoeuvre table and add the bonus to the characters DB.  The rest of the rules will follow as normal from there; ensuring that the character is still using Dodge and the bonus result from the last round.  The use of A/T to Dodge to disengage is also covered in ML, however I don?t think it?s sufficient.

If a character was stunned and trying to disengage, I would follow my House Rule for Dodge to disengage and apply the normal stun rules.  If a character tries the Parry option, then they can apply only ? of their OB to DB.

Shield Parry & Damage Adjustment by Armour
I agree with Rasyr on the Shield Parry point.  I would like to query whether the damage adjustment rule changes the critical roll or the concussion damage taken.

Spells in Combat
If a character was casting a spell in combat and got hit, I would require them to make a Resistance: Will check against a 100 with a negative based on the severity of the damage, this is like the stun rules in the Bazaar Annual (optional rule pg 48).  Similar to what Fidoric suggested, although I would use a Light injury as a 0 modifier, Medium -20 and Severe -40.  If the caster was concentrating to maintain spells they would receive a -50 to this check for each spell they were maintaining.  Using your example Crypt, that would be a Will roll with a -140.

Other Actions While Concentrating on a Spell
I would use the scaling rule in CoM as errata.  Scaling option of +1/2 base cost to move at normal BMR.

Hitting Stunned Foes and Rear/Flank Attacks
Hitting an unconscious foe should be a coup-de-grace move and automatically hit unless some one interferes.  Hitting a stunned foe receives a bonus as attacker is able to take advantage of the stunned persons disoriented situation.  Also, I find DB is usually so low that applying more negatives ends up in a negative DB and so poses some more confusing questions.

When it comes to positioning in combat I run with six areas of attack; front, front flanks, rear and rear flanks.

If a character is attacking from the rear on a stunned target who is unaware of the attackers presence, then the target will not be able to apply any parry bonus to DB.  Considering how low non-magically enhanced DBs can be, the +60 total to the attackers OB is considerable.

If the same target fails a Perception check against a rear flank attack then I would consider this a rear attack.  If an attack is from the front flanks or they succeed in a rear flank Perception check, then rules apply as normal and the target will be aware of the attack.

? Stuff
Halving non-combat skill bonuses works out very differently to a straight negative due to how the skills scale.  This can be quite crippling and hard to scale with manoeuvre difficulty.  However, applying straight negatives to combat skills is the reverse of the non-combat skill situation.

Drawing and Brawling
I would allow a character to ready a weapon and use Brawling at a -20 (Hard skill check situation).  If a character uses a Martial Arts skill, I would allow them to do it with no modifier.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2008, 09:04:53 AM »
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Rasyr I have the .pdfs of the main Rulebook and Martial Law.  Both say that you do not get the negative result from the bonus table when trying to Dodge/Sudden Dodge.  I brought them at the end of 2007 and the beginning of 2008.

Look closely at the whole sentence. It says that the 50 is modified by the Bonus column. It says that the mod to DB cannot be below zero. It says to ignore negative results.

Yes, it is absolutely bad wording on our part.

Now, take a look at the Maneuver Table as you are reading the description. A result of 0-10 (in the Total Roll column) gives a -50 (which when added to the +50 gives a result of +0 DB).

A negative result (on the Total Roll column) is what was being referred to in the description for Dodge, not a negative result in the Bonus column. (and this is a point where Sudden Dodge differs from Dodge).

Offline Karak_Nor

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2008, 09:27:17 PM »
I've reread the entry on dodge.  I see what you mean Rasyr.  The inclusion of "...ignore any negative results on the Manoeuvre table." caused my confusion.  If it said ignore any negative results from the DB modifier I would have have found it less so.

Thank you, now dodge isn't so powerful.

Offline Widukind

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 04:37:21 PM »
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Now, take a look at the Maneuver Table as you are reading the description. A result of 0-10 (in the Total Roll column) gives a -50 (which when added to the +50 gives a result of +0 DB).

A negative result (on the Total Roll column) is what was being referred to in the description for Dodge, not a negative result in the Bonus column. (and this is a point where Sudden Dodge differs from Dodge).


Ok, Dodge is 50 - bonus from  the maneuver table
And sudden dodge is 25 - bonus from the maneuver table, or does it means treat all all maneuver results from 05-100 as zero?
Quote
"treat all negative results from the bonus clumn as if they gave a bonus of zero" HC 93

« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 04:47:27 PM by Widukind »

Offline Elessar

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Re: some combat questions
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2010, 02:37:52 AM »
Well, if i've understand it all :

Dodge : against 1 attack (or group of attacks) from 1 foe
1- 1D100  + (Ag x 2 or Acrobatic skill) in Total roll column (ignore negative result)
2- see the "Modifier" in the Bonus column
3- DB from Dodge = DB + 50 + "Modifier".
With these rules, "Modifier" can't be lower than -50.

Sudden Dodge : against 1 or multiples attack(s) from 1 or multiples foe(s)
1- 1D100  + (Ag x 2 or Acrobatic skill) in Total roll column (positive or negative result)
2- see the "Modifier" in the Bonus column ; ignore Modifier < 0
3- DB from Sudden Dodge = DB + 25 + "Modifier"
With these rules, "Modifier" can't be lower than 0.

Is that right ?  ???