Topic: Optional skills' sim bonuses

[Justin]

When post RC2 books gave optional skills, they did not mention anything about similar skill bonuses. I can come up with my own thoughts, of coarse, but I'd still like to ask:
What are folks' suggested similar skill bonuses to and from these optional skills?
Shield Bash  (prolly 1H-Crushing....)
Tackling  (prolly Wrestling...)
Weapon Casting  (prolly Thrown...)
Whip Grapple
Wrestling  (prolly Tackling...)
Sniping  (prolly Ambush...)

[Cormac Doyle]

Similar skill bonuses should not be used. (or require heavy revision).

[vroomfogle]

I'm not sure how many people use the similar skills table in RMCom2, but I know lots of people who run from it screaming.    If I could pick one optional rule from the companions that was overly complex and un-needed it would be that similar skill rule.

We chatted a lot about similar skills in the RM revision forums.   In my opinion the need for a Similar Skill mechanism arises from one main thing: Skill Bloat. TOO many skills leads to unneccessary skill overlap.   I mean, do you really need Acrobatics AND Tumbling?   Do you really need Tackling and Wrestling?   When two skills overlap so much that you can pretty much substitute them in-game, then you have 1 too many skills.

In some cases a similar skill mechanism is warranted and the perfect example for that is weapons.    This is one of those things that RMSS got right.  Unfortunately it tried to take the similar skill mechanism (which was essentially categorization) TOO far and it led to a silly synergy between many completely unrelated skills (my favorite being the First Aid/Begging dilemna).     However similar skills for weapons can actually be handled much nicer with something like Combat Styles such as what was in the Martial Arts Companion or the forthcoming RMC Combat Companion.

I also could go off on a long-winded discussion on how stats already represent a more abstract form of a similar skill mechanism and therefore any more rules on the subject are really unncessary, but that is already around in the archives somewhere...



But sorry Justin, this has not really been an answer to your question.   I'm not sure you'll get much of an answer from folks around here as I think it's the minority that use that rule.   However, it looks to me like your suggestions are good ones, if you keep using similar skills.

[Old Man]

...
What are folks' suggested similar skill bonuses to and from these optional skills?
Shield Bash  (prolly 1H-Crushing....)
Tackling  (prolly Wrestling...)
Weapon Casting  (prolly Thrown...)
Whip Grapple
Wrestling  (prolly Tackling...)
Sniping  (prolly Ambush...)

Shield Bash - any 1H crush skill
Tackling/Wresting - Brawling and/or MA Wrestling (if you use such)
Weapon Casting - any thrown skill
Whip Grapple - Whip skill (grapple vs crush crits) and/or any 1H crush skill (1/4 prob)
Sniping - aye Ambush

Ciao,
Old Man

[Jorik]

Though not a 100% on the subject - it's still related.
I was toying with a house rule for weapon skill rank aquisition (for RMC), although it can be applied to other skills of similar nature - i.e. the skill itself is a group of different skills.

OK, first, rank developed in a weapon skill is actually developed for all weapons in that skill group - for example, if you develop 1 rank in 1-handed crushing, you can use the skill mod for ALL weapons of such nature.
Secondly, if you would like to specialize in a specific weapon type (say, a war hammer), you can invest 1 rank and gain a specialty in that weapon type which grants you a flat bonus of +15 to your 1-handed crushing OB, only when using that weapon.
This speciality can be taken only once.  You don't get a rank, only the flat +15 to the OB of the 1-H crushing skill (again, only when attacking with a war hammer).

Weapon skills should be written on the character sheet somthing like this:
1 Handed Edged (Broad sword, dagger, long sword)  total modifier = +35
That means that whenever the character attacks with a 1 handed edged weapon - he has a +35 OB
BUT when he attacks with either a Broad sword, dagger or long sword, the OB is actually +50 (35 + 15 = 50)

This wasn't playtested - I bet several other rulings must be made to snug this in with the system.
Ammount of DPs should probably change a bit, and the weapon skills themselves could be renamed (something similar to the attack tables of the upcoming battle companion - i.e. Short blades, long blades, 1-h crushing, etc.)
The specialty "rank" is counted towards the number of ranks you can develop in a skill at once - and should cost more if it's the second "rank" taken in the same development stage. BUT, YOU DON'T GET A RANK, you get a +15 flat bonus to a specific weapon.

This rule can also be applied to other skills - which requires changing the whole skill list a bit (certain existing skills could become actually a speciality of another different skill - the old tumbling/acrobatics dilema).

What do you think? RM revision material?
Roy.

[Ecthelion]

IIRC the HARP rules have it more or less the other way around. The primary weapon in a weapon group gets the normal bonus and all other weapons in the group get a -20. So you develop skill in wielding a broadsword for a total bonus of lets say +80. Similar weapons like a longsword or a short sword get the -20 and can be used with an OB of +60. That rule is playtested - at least for HARP...

[Jorik]

Cool. Haven't played HARP for a while (or any RPG) so I didn't remember that.
Hopefully my group can find the time to start an RMC game.
Roy.

[dutch206]

Justin FYI....the Similar skill bonus rules are what eventually lead to the creation of the Rolemaster Standard System's Skill Categories".  It's amazing how many of those old rules options have reappeared in later games.

[Justin]

Justin FYI....the Similar skill bonus rules are what eventually lead to the creation of the Rolemaster Standard System's Skill Categories".  It's amazing how many of those old rules options have reappeared in later games.

You know, I bought my first RM book that had that system. And then I went to ebay and bought all the old books. I guess if I hadn't been started with the old RM2 system (and my gm didn't even use sim.skill bonuses!) I would have liked it. But I didn't. I think if I could turn back time, I'd continue buying the new stuff and just adjust.
(But I also hated that they had racial skill costs, which should be cultural not racial, which is another pre-existing thread alltogether.)