Author Topic: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2  (Read 3939 times)

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Offline DragonReborn

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Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« on: March 27, 2014, 07:25:49 AM »
Hi,

Just wanted to drop a note on the wide range of applications for Spacemaster 2nd edition.

Three years back I wanted to start out with a Battletech / Mechwarrior campaign. We wanted to keep the rules as uninvasive as possible so we started with the older Mechwarrior 2nd Edition rules. Unfortunately they allow only Mechwarrior type PCs to appeal to the crowd and were otherwise totally uninspired. So we moved on to Mechwarrior 3rd edition. It took a while to migrate all the existing PCs and while we were already at it, I spotted "Ten million ways to die" in a local hobby shop. Rolemaster is king when it comes to creative ways to day and so I ventured out to include the critical system into the Mechwarrior 3rd edition rules.
That ... somehow... worked for a ... short ... while. But it never felt really consistent.

So, without further ado, we migrated again. I plowed through the Spacemaster GM book and identified the hooks and handles where the system could be used to implement Battletech Clan Truebred warriors = transhumans, and where skills needed to be added for battlemech and aerospace pilots. My brother in law helped with the Excel and BOOOM, came the day where our first campaign started in the year 3028!

Our group is now almost two years down the road and off exploring the Inner Sphere with guns blazing - based totally on Spacemaster 2nd edition.

Why I mention this? Because Spacemaster - even taken out of Imperium context - is an awesome system. 4 editions of Battletech RPGs haven't gone systemwise where I can take the guys with SM2.

If anybody out there has similar experiences with their favorite settings, I'd love to know what you went through for your conversion.
Sebastian Klapdor
MX Bladestorm Dev
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MX Homepage http://www.bladestorm.mx
facebook page http://www.facebook.com/BladestormTabletop
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Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 12:59:12 PM »
BTW, is your real name Arnold?


I love the pic.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Wolfhound

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 04:12:29 PM »
Actually something that I've been considering for years now is to use Spacemaster, or even HARP-SF after it came out, with the Eve-Online setting.  This would allow for some very interesting options including exploring wrecks and abandoned space stations, or intrigue (beyond what already exists in Eve-Online, which is extremely cut-throat and dog-eat-dog to begin with).

I've got a word doc that I've been slowly building with ideas for it, but just haven't gotten it to the point where I'm ready to test the idea yet (since I'm so busy with other things).  But have several friends who are both Rolemaster/Spacemaster players as well as Eve Online players, so if I did it via an email based game it would probably work okay. 

The biggest issue I've been dealing with there is trying to figure out how best to deal with the integration of the skill systems between them.  Both systems are very mathematically and simulationist oriented and have a semi-hard sci-fi feel to them; but that is where the similarities end.  Eve Online uses a 0-5 skill level (and thus very grainy, but with 2nd, 3rd etc. "tier" skills that go beyond the base skill) that then results in small modifications to whatever you are trying to accomplish, and what those modifications are varies based on the ship and fittings for that ship that you are using.  Whereas Spacemaster that uses a d100 with a skill system that is very smooth with a very large range. 

P.S. I thought the picture was pretty funny also.
Wolfhound (aka Aaron Smalley)
World of Aernth/Channel Cities setting: www.ChannelCities.com
City of Archendurn & Dun Cru author (for RM/HARP)
Cur. projects: RMU Creature Law 1 & 2, No Quarter Under the Crown (campaign module for RMU)

Offline DragonReborn

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2014, 12:58:24 PM »
Hey thanks,

Naaaaa, I'm not Aanold. But zee Austrian Oooak sure makes a good cover up  8)

Funny enough, I also started with a word document. I would post it here, but it's all in German and I don't know what good that would do. For me, getting Mechwarrior to Spacemaster was about a conversion of principles. If you forfeit those, the game would loose an important aspect.

For instance, Fasa published lots of so called "Life Paths" in it's source books. Players would go through early childhood, schools, etc. until they had accumulated enough skills to jump into the game.
I modified this to work with skill advancement by appointing a level up to each life path stage. Optional events included. This way, the players reached lvl 4 when they finally hit the stage.

Now concerning Eve-Online. It is probabely not possible to integrate a foreign skill system into Spacemaster. As you already mentioned: Spacemaster makes nice use of the very large D100 range.

So the skill itself is not enough to emphasize the results.

How about this: Martial Arts make use of the "Rank" mechanic in which you basically have four levels of the same skill with increasing "effectiveness". The rules provide an advancement that keeps you from leveling up the most effective rank 4 from ground up. Instead you are required to gain a certain proficiency with rank 1, then you can build rank 2 and so forth.

Why not determine the most important skills in Eve-Online, then find their Spacemaster/Rolemaster counterparts. If they don't exist, create them and determine linked stats.
Now declare ranks 1-6 for advancement and discuss with the group what effects should be possible at the individual stages. Levelling up is done following the normal rules. Done!
Sebastian Klapdor
MX Bladestorm Dev
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MX Homepage http://www.bladestorm.mx
facebook page http://www.facebook.com/BladestormTabletop
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Offline Wolfhound

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2014, 03:45:11 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion.  Had not thought about taking a "rank" type of approach, but that might actually work, will have to think about that option.  Actually the levels in Eve-Online are called Ranks rather than levels if I remember correctly.  But the 0 (zero) that I was referring to was simply not having the skill, so it would only need 5 ranks rather than 6.  But as stated that is an interesting idea for integrating SM and Eve. 

It's been years since I've played Battletech and it was the early version where I don't recall there being much of a "character development" aspect to it (think they added that about the time I was no longer playing as I only participated in a few games shortly after it was released).  So I can't comment much on your explanation of how you integrated Spacemaster into it, but it does sound like an interesting way to handle it. 
Wolfhound (aka Aaron Smalley)
World of Aernth/Channel Cities setting: www.ChannelCities.com
City of Archendurn & Dun Cru author (for RM/HARP)
Cur. projects: RMU Creature Law 1 & 2, No Quarter Under the Crown (campaign module for RMU)

Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 04:39:43 PM »
 I have not looked at the Eve Online stuff but I would bet they have a book on the game as well as character development, some of the books can be a great resource to convert over to RM any computer game.


 I have also liked the MW life path system and have thought about converting it over to SM:P & RMSS but other things have jumped in the way of it.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline marcsilvester

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2014, 08:22:57 AM »
Hi, I was reading about you using SM to run mechwarrior/battletech. This is something I have been planning to do for a while. Just a question though....have you converted any of the battlemechs to spacemaster/armoured assault ?

Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2014, 12:07:41 PM »
marcsilvester,
 What were you talking about on "converted" any of the battlemechs tto SM/AA? I was thinking about just using them as is and using/converting the mods to AA or SS.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline marcsilvester

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2014, 07:30:25 AM »
I was actually asking if anyone had converted the battlemechs over to armoured assault but you answered that in your previous reply.

Many thanks

Offline pyrotech

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2014, 12:57:08 PM »
Battletech/Mechwarrior has always been a favorite of mine, but to be honest Rolemaster and Spacemaster have always been a bit too rules and chart heavy for me.  So I've been mostly fiddling around with the idea to find a conversion to Harp Sci-Fi.

I've never seen Armored Assault so I am intrigued by looking into how easy it would be to use for a Harp game.  Rolemaster/Spacemaster isn't typically to hard to convert to its HARP equivalent.

But taking a look at DrivethuNOW's Armored Assault pdf I am wondering if anyone else has bought it.  Is it's scan quality really as bad as the later pages of the sample show it?  Those appear to be practically unreadable in many cases.  The quick preview looks great, but the detailed preview is for all practical purposes unusable.

Thanks,

-Pyrotech

Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 02:27:27 PM »
  I like AA as it basically takes the rules from BT and puts it in a RM format. Terrain mods, atmo ect are all in there the only difference is the V construction system which is SM2 and covers all types of V's. The book it a lot bigger than SS and IMHO worth the $ (but I have not checked the $ lately).
 I also like the various vehicle books that provide ready made stuff (as it gives me a good start on things to mod).


MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline marcsilvester

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2014, 03:03:19 PM »
Luckily I managed to get the SM2 boxed set, armoured assault boxed set AND star strike boxed set off ebay sometime in 2012 for around £30, which obviously I was extremely pleased about - so no badly scanned pdf files for me :p

Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 07:18:58 PM »
That is a good deal. I picked my copy up in a RM/SM lot of over 30 products of ebay in the late 90's.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline marcsilvester

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2014, 06:06:03 AM »
Yeah, sounds good to me. Just a case of looking around, as well as sometimes looking in the right place at the right time  ;D

Offline pyrotech

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2014, 01:31:27 PM »
Well despite the risks, after looking at the quick sample again (it looked very good) I went ahead an bought the pdf.

I can tell you the scan quality is no worse than I would have expected for any scanned book and is perfectly acceptable by my standards.

Now I just need to read it and see how easy it would be to port over to HARP Sci-Fi.

I'm also looking at building a 100 ton assault mech with the design rules and see how it compares to some Battletech stuff.  Following that I may try a 10 ton Light Mech and see how well it tracks across the size categories.

Is there a spreadsheet for AA vehicle construction in the vault?  I'll have to check.

Thanks,
-Pyrotech

Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2014, 01:42:31 PM »
You may also want to up the mass to more than 100 tons or take a look at the AA pre-cons in the AA ship book Armored reserves.


The main problem I have found is that you can include so many weapons and such large weapons in AA on a Mech vs CBT. If you create some basic limits on weapon size vs vehicle size IMHO you can solve those problems.


Other than that I do like the ease of applying multi-mode transport systems to V's and Mech's in AA, but then I also have Aero Tec 1 so I have the rules for making Land-Air-Mech's also.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline marcsilvester

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2014, 01:54:03 PM »
The only real problem I could see was the whole tonnage = hits idea.  Somehow, a 20-ton Mech with 20 hits is not that appealing, even with all the armour belt's etc...

What do other people thing? I was looking at just times all tonnages by 10 to get the amount of hits for a Mech/vehicle.

Offline pyrotech

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2014, 05:17:22 PM »
I'm still trying to find effective conversion levels for things.

Movement is easy.  2/3 is 2MP, 3/5 is 4MP, 4/6 is 6MP, 5/7 is also 6MP, 6/9 is 8MP, 7/11 is 10MP, and 8/12 is also 10MP.

Battletech weapon ranges have always been bogus so I am not even going to worry about those.

I am assuming right now that standard BT armor is CAT24. Ferro-fiberous and the like would be modeled with advanced alloys.  Armor belts would just be 5 for practically unarmored, 10, for light armored, 15 for medium armored, 20 for well armored, and 25 for max armored mechs.

I'm currently working on weapon damages now though.  I've had a couple basic ideas for quick modeling.  Damage in BT x 2 = Mk # (min 6) is one of them.  The other is Damage in BT + 5 = Mk #.  Both of these would mean normal Mech damage would not exceed Mk. 25 or 40.  I've been looking at "average" hits to determine how survivable a Mech would be with these asumptions.  I haven't been able to hammer this out yet.

Next I think is the power plant stuff.

I'll let you know what I come up with and see if anyone else agrees.

Thanks,
-Pyrotech

Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2014, 07:10:00 PM »
  For tonnage I think the conversion from Traveller's 100 tons= 1000 tons in SM2 is a good start. (But I really want you to confirm my observation.)
 This would also mean the min hits would go from 20 to 200, which IMHO is a huge improvement and more realistic.



 As for Mk#'s I just might throw the conversion out the window and make my own unique weapon table and just keep the CBT names and factory names. I would also keep all of the Talents and Flaws (I think they are positive and negative quirks) for the weapons to make them even more desirable.
 As for max MK# I do not have a problem limiting weapons to under Mk 25 or so as in the latest books they have included Navel Weapons and Sub Capital Weapons that I would place in the higher MK #'s in the 30 to 50 range.
 I think I would also either increase the weight of the weapon systems or simply increase the power requirements for weapon. But I am more inclined to increase the power requirements to represent the heat sinks and balance factor for the game.
 If you want to include heat sinks as a design element I think I would still increase the power requirements for the weapons and also include an heat sink design step in the construction rules.   


MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline markc

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Re: Battletech / Mechwarrior with SM2
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 06:09:04 PM »
Also IIRC, if you use the SM:P weapon tables instead of the SM2 weapon tables you can start with MK# 1 weapons and move on up to the higher MK#'s.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.