Topic: Losing Control/Mastery

[providence13]

 Can you tell when losing Control or Mastery of an Entity?

It could be implied that if making the RR, you're aware of a spell affecting you (Essence Raw?) However, the Summoner Lists have a spell (iirc, need to look it up) that can affect the Entity, not the caster.

So this got me thinking, you might not know control is lost until it doesn't follow you orders..

Anyone have experience with this?

[Marc R]

It's not errata, but there's a chain of rules that can allow for this.

Casters can cancel any duration spell they cast within it's original casting radius. (it's in the spell notes)

Which, if I recall the original discussion relating to instances like this, means that casters are aware of all of their active spells that have durations, that they are standing within casting distance of.

So if the master entity spell has a casting range of 100', the caster will sense the control spell's existence as long as they are within 100' of the entity, if the spell fails or is cancelled 200' away, the caster won't know.

If the entity approaches, once it crosses that 100' line, the caster would be able to know.

That's in a grey area out at the edges of the rules, so it's not really clear if the caster just knows, or if they have to at least check "do I still feel the control spell" or if checking would require any effort like say concentration.

[providence13]

Thanks,
That's a good argument for being cognizant of Control/Mastery.
At least my players will be happy. 

[Marc R]

Feel free to play the grey area, and require them to check rather than just "Know" and/or require concentration to check if you want to be really mean. (Perhaps just 20% concentration if you want to be just a little mean).

[Ynglaur]

I kind of like this concept.  Control Entity, send the thing to accomplish some task, but you don't know it's been subverted until it returns.  "Wait a minute...something doesn't feel right..."

[Marc R]

Followed with rending and screaming noises?

[providence13]

Neither Control nor Mastery allow communication with the Entity.
So my initial thought was that the caster sends out a command and assumes that it's followed.
Mastery requires no %Act and Control is (c); 50%Act.

The Summoner has spells that reduce this to 20%Act. The problem is each Realm and each spell List have different max numbers of Control/Mastered Entities..

That Mage and his pesky elementals. It's time the party met a Summoner.

[arakish]

Can you tell when losing Control or Mastery of an Entity?  Anyone have experience with this?

Very good question.  When this came about in gaming, I have ruled that the Control/Master Entity spell allowed just that, and nothing more.  You controlled/mastered the Entity, but the spell did not allow you to know that the control/mastery was either being broken or was broken.  I forget which spells I allowed, but I did allow other spells to detect whether the entity was still under control/mastery.

IIRC, one reference I used was that Lord Foul could not detect that turiya Raver (correct one?) was losing control of Linden Avery until it was too late during the final showdown in White Gold Wielder.  Although it was not a spell, I still used it as a reference.  There may be other references to actual spells, but that is the only one I remember quickly.  Then again, Lord Foul was also too focused on Convenant to really realize turiya Raver was losing control.

rmfr