Topic: Cutting The Gordanian Knot

[markc]

Pastaav,
 I do not understand why you cannot change the DP cost of single skills. I simply write the new number in the box on the spreedsheet and go from thier. Simple done, no problem. You can adjust a single skill or just a category or all the skils in a category.

Rasyr,
 It looks like you have your notebook open and are recording thoughts for RM2011 by the time you get permission to write it you might all ready be done. Then the problem is how to bill them for you work.

MDC   

[ob1knorrb]

When I am finally allowed to begin working on the next version of Rolemaster, one of the things that I want to do is to create a skill system based on a suggestion made by Brent Knorr quite a while back.

In short, it is a Collapsible Skill System. In short, you start off, at the lowest level, with a fixed number of DPs per level, and a small list of skills. Many of those skills being "big bucket" skills. The skills would be grouped into categories (based roughly on skill focus, but you wouldn't purchase ranks in them.

Then the next level of detail, would break several of those big bucket skills into individual skills. Some of these would still be big bucket skills, but the buckets would not be quite as big...

Then a third level that break some skills into sub-categories with individual skills beneath them. Here, you could buy ranks in the sub-categories, and the bonus (current thinking being +1 per rank), applying to the individual skills beneath it.

In both of the two upper levels, there would also be an increase in the number of PP per level (still fixed numbers though).

The benefits of this sort of tiered skill system is that it would allow for those who like something closer to HARP or RMX, something akin to RMC, and something akin to RMFRP all while using the same game.

ICE could then use one of the detail levels as its core, what it uses in creating NPCs and the like, and use that in all of its products, and it would be very easy to translate from one detail level to another, with no muss, no fuss.

At least, this is my goal.....

Huh?!?!?

When I am finally allowed to begin working on the next version of Rolemaster, one of the things that I want to do is to create a skill system based on a suggestion made by Brent Knorr quite a while back.

In short, it is a Collapsible Skill System. In short, you start off, at the lowest level, with a fixed number of DPs per level, and a small list of skills. Many of those skills being "big bucket" skills. The skills would be grouped into categories (based roughly on skill focus, but you wouldn't purchase ranks in them.

Then the next level of detail, would break several of those big bucket skills into individual skills. Some of these would still be big bucket skills, but the buckets would not be quite as big...

Then a third level that break some skills into sub-categories with individual skills beneath them. Here, you could buy ranks in the sub-categories, and the bonus (current thinking being +1 per rank), applying to the individual skills beneath it.

In both of the two upper levels, there would also be an increase in the number of PP per level (still fixed numbers though).

The benefits of this sort of tiered skill system is that it would allow for those who like something closer to HARP or RMX, something akin to RMC, and something akin to RMFRP all while using the same game.

ICE could then use one of the detail levels as its core, what it uses in creating NPCs and the like, and use that in all of its products, and it would be very easy to translate from one detail level to another, with no muss, no fuss.

At least, this is my goal.....

Huh?!?!?

I generally like RM but one thing I would do if I was running it was give a fixed amount of DP per level (not as realistic as DPs based upon stats but more fair to all players).

DonMoody

This is what I will be doing for my SM/RM/SW game. Set DPs and using the set attribute choices from RMX, so there will be no slighting development attributes.

I remember that suggestion, I think I still have my notes on it on my home P.C.  I don't recall if I posted it anywhere or just emailed it to Tim, but it sounds like he's done some refinements on it already.  Which is good since the original idea was by no means flawless, it was definitely an idea to generate food for thought and not a magic solution

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Rasyr,
 It looks like you have your notebook open and are recording thoughts for RM2011 by the time you get permission to write it you might all ready be done. Then the problem is how to bill them for you work.

Company employee... Products made for the company are owned by the company. 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I remember that suggestion, I think I still have my notes on it on my home P.C.  I don't recall if I posted it anywhere or just emailed it to Tim, but it sounds like he's done some refinements on it already.  Which is good since the original idea was by no means flawless, it was definitely an idea to generate food for thought and not a magic solution

If I recall correctly, your original suggestion had 5 levels, and had every skill being broken down at each level (which is something of an improbability for some skills).

I do remember, quite clearly, Heike and I having a nice long discussion about it on the front porch. Which means that bruce likely heard most of it since those discussions tended to be a little loud from time to time, especially if Heike and I had different opinions.  heheh...

[ob1knorrb]

Those kinds of discussions can be the most fun 

[David Johansen]

With Regard to Tech Trade General (and the tech trade group in general) it probably should have been combined, it's certainly a dog's breakfast.  On the other hand, I think crafts should probably be inflated to make cooking and metal working etc categories.  I'm never quite sure what should be done with Combat Maneuvers and Special Attacks but I'm pretty sure they need some greater linkage with the weapon skill.  Like being in the same category.  Though I'd make Melee Weapons a single category.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Those kinds of discussions can be the most fun 

Most definitely. While I was still working out of the office, Heike and I shared a very free-form, unregimented development style. Both of us would spout things off and argue the ideas back and forth, tossing in new things and tossing them right back out as things progressed. Then once we went through all of that, we would go back and summarize and  settle on the details.

When Heike and I talk on the phone, I use a cordless, cause that way I can pace back and forth as I talk much easier.... hehe

[markc]

Those kinds of discussions can be the most fun 

 Both of us would spout things off and argue the ideas back and forth, tossing in new things and tossing them right back out as things progressed.

 Hopefully there was only words being thrown around and nothing eles.
MDC

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Only words.... often loud words as we would get excited or try to drown the other one out to get our points across.

And to make it even more interesting, both Heike and I are highly intuitive logical thinkers. I can often go from step A to step E, but then I have to go back and try to figure out why my subconscious went that direction (it is correct 90-95% of the time, but I have no idea why until I figure it out hehe). Heike on the other hand, can go from A to J and she already knows the reasons why.

To say that our conversations could sometimes seem to really skip about would be a bit of an understatement.... heheh

[Arioch]

@ Jonathan: for a simplification of the system I would give fixed stats (and thus a fixed DPs amount per level) and remove completely stat gain and potentials (you could always add it in a future "addition").

@ Vroom: I don't like how the tech.-trade categories are handled, too. I would have done only one low cost combined category, without the general/vocational/professional distinction. I also don't like the martial arts combat manuever cat, and so I've simply dropped it. 

[pastaav]

Pastaav,
 I do not understand why you cannot change the DP cost of single skills. I simply write the new number in the box on the spreedsheet and go from thier. Simple done, no problem. You can adjust a single skill or just a category or all the skils in a category.

Good point...if you are using a spreedsheet I do agree, but the individual costs for single skills in the category is basically how restricted, everyman and occupational was implemented in the first edititon in RMSS....not something that I have very fond memories of.

[Fidoric]

Maybe because in early RMSS, you not only change the costs of your Everyman (2/4 I think) and Occupational (1/2/3) but also because you had to shift the skills to another category where they did not benefit from the basic skill category... that was rather strange to me.