Topic: Correcting the 'Magician'

[Dark Schneider]

I'll put the original, the correction and the source for this correction.

1) Lore magical +20 -> Lore magical +10 and Power manipulation +10. RMSS book, this profession is not corrected in the essence book as the others (errata).

2) Directed spell cost 2/5 -> Directed spell cost 1/4. RMC2 Master Skill Table, if we look well we see that the final directed spell cost for magician used in books is the 'targeting' skill, not the 'directed spell' cost, maybe with that name it there were confusion and the incorrect cost were printed, but I think the real author's intention was always the cost 1/4 (maybe the same failure than with the final bosses in videogame SF2?).

3) Self control cost 6 -> Self control cost 3. Common sense, this correction is for ALL professions. With the original cost 'meditation' is cheaper for fighter than magician (...how it can be?) if we add the skill+category cost for the complete skill bonus. So for ANY profession, if the cost is greater than 3, the real cost is 3.
We need to make a correction more if this cost is used, and is the why for this cost >3, we need to add in restricted skills: all adrenal self control skills. This is more correct IMO.
Think well about this, only for adrenal skills, is correct that crazy cost for mnemonics or control lycanthropy?, I think not, so if the purpose is increase the adrenal skills cost, then is not the easier and natural way classify them as restricted and not draging the entire category with them?.

[Ecthelion]

I'll put the original, the correction and the source for this correction.

1) Lore magical +20 -> Lore magical +10 and Power manipulation +10. RMSS book, this profession is not corrected in the essence book as the others (errata).

Can you explain this? In the RMSS book the Magician does already have +10 to Lore Magical and +10 to Power Manipulation skills.

2) Directed spell cost 2/5 -> Directed spell cost 1/4. RMC2 Master Skill Table, if we look well we see that the final directed spell cost for magician used in books is the 'targeting' skill, not the 'directed spell' cost, maybe with that name it there were confusion and the incorrect cost were printed, but I think the real author's intention was always the cost 1/4 (maybe the same failure than with the final bosses in videogame SF2?).

We could change this, but I don't see the necessity.

3) Self control cost 6 -> Self control cost 3. Common sense, this correction is for ALL professions. With the original cost 'meditation' is cheaper for fighter than magician (...how it can be?) if we add the skill+category cost for the complete skill bonus. So for ANY profession, if the cost is greater than 3, the real cost is 3.
We need to make a correction more if this cost is used, and is the why for this cost >3, we need to add in restricted skills: all adrenal self control skills. This is more correct IMO.
Think well about this, only for adrenal skills, is correct that crazy cost for mnemonics or control lycanthropy?, I think not, so if the purpose is increase the adrenal skills cost, then is not the easier and natural way classify them as restricted and not draging the entire category with them?.

I also don't see that the cost for the Meditation skill should be much higher for a Magician than for example a Fighter (but that's perhaps only my personal opinion). But what you seem to ignore is that for exactly this skill the Magician's cost are already lowered as the skill is IIRC an Everyman skill for a Magician. This (almost) cuts the costs in half from 6 to 3. And DP costs of 3 is exactly what you voted for. So I don't see the need to modify the costs for the entire category. And I don't see why all professions should have a maximum cost for the Self Control category of 3.

[Dark Schneider]

Can you explain this? In the RMSS book the Magician does already have +10 to Lore Magical and +10 to Power Manipulation skills.

Is a correction to RMFRP book with the RMSS one. In RMFRP we have the first one.

We could change this, but I don't see the necessity.

I think yes, if not is as if fighter main weapon costs 2/5 instead 1/5, than first 1 to 2 can modify much the character creation for DPs distribution.

I also don't see that the cost for the Meditation skill should be much higher for a Magician than for example a Fighter (but that's perhaps only my personal opinion). But what you seem to ignore is that for exactly this skill the Magician's cost are already lowered as the skill is IIRC an Everyman skill for a Magician.

I count with that, so add, if any skill rank cost the same (3) and the category cost more (6), it is not more expensive?. And independent of other profession cost, it is not excesive for an usual skill for that profession? (it is used in power awareness skills).

And I don't see why all professions should have a maximum cost for the Self Control category of 3.

Because I see that category as many others, as a neutral category that there is no reason for increasing the cost so much for any profession, other examples are crafts or techs. And I think the why this cost was increased are the adrenal skills (doing average with RM2 skills), but then is better use the restricted RMFRP option for those skills.

[Ecthelion]

We could change this, but I don't see the necessity.

I think yes, if not is as if fighter main weapon costs 2/5 instead 1/5, than first 1 to 2 can modify much the character creation for DPs distribution.

A Fighter has quite a lot of weapons inside each category that he can learn. So a cost of 1/X ensures that he can have some diversity in his main weapon category. For a Magician this is IMO not as important, as the number of elemental bolts he has access to is much more limited. So I am fine with a cost of 2/X.

I also don't see that the cost for the Meditation skill should be much higher for a Magician than for example a Fighter (but that's perhaps only my personal opinion). But what you seem to ignore is that for exactly this skill the Magician's cost are already lowered as the skill is IIRC an Everyman skill for a Magician.

I count with that, so add, if any skill rank cost the same (3) and the category cost more (6), it is not more expensive?

I am aware of that, it's why I wrote "This (almost) cuts the costs in half". E.g. if, as a Magician, I want to reach +50 skill rank bonus in Meditation, the "cheapest" ways is to develop 1 rank in the category and 20 ranks in the skill (for a total of +52 to be precise). This costs me 6 DPs for the rank in the category plus 10 * 6 = 60 DPs for the ranks in the skill for a total of 66 DPs. A profession with a DP cost of 3 would e.g. need 10 ranks in the category and 10 ranks in the skill for a total of 60 DPs. Almost the same as for the Magician. That difference gets smaller with higher total skill rank bonus. So it is almost like the costs for that skill were only 3 DPs for the Magician.

And I don't see why all professions should have a maximum cost for the Self Control category of 3.

Because I see that category as many others, as a neutral category that there is no reason for increasing the cost so much for any profession, other examples are crafts or techs. And I think the why this cost was increased are the adrenal skills (doing average with RM2 skills), but then is better use the restricted RMFRP option for those skills.

That could be done, but then we are in an almost as complicated area as the whole revision discussion. Doing such a change in a balanced ways is IMO quite difficult.

[Dark Schneider]

So a cost of 1/X ensures that he can have some diversity in his main weapon category. For a Magician this is IMO not as important, as the number of elemental bolts he has access to is much more limited.

Yes, but is more a profession concept, we need to differentiate of sorcerer, for example, as with figther-rogue where there is that subtle change from 1/5 to 2/5. And exploting that in RMC2 Master Table it is indicated this cost (1/4), I saw it appropiate. It is not very important (are 6 bolts in magician lists, plus the other essence lists), but I see more detailed in that way. Usually other professions only have 1 directed spell in their base lists, plus the realm lists, so basically there is a difference of 5 skills more to develop.

I am aware of that, it's why I wrote "This (almost) cuts the costs in half". E.g. if, as a Magician, I want to reach +50 skill rank bonus in Meditation, the "cheapest" ways is to develop 1 rank in the category and 20 ranks in the skill (for a total of +52 to be precise).

I did that until I realized that +52 as limit for an usual skill is low, that push me to search for 'how to correct this'. And this is the easier (and best) solution I found.

That could be done, but then we are in an almost as complicated area as the whole revision discussion. Doing such a change in a balanced ways is IMO quite difficult.

It is really easy, all profession that have a self control cost greater than 3, low them to 3 and put all adrenal self control skills as restricted. We use it now and I sure you that is not difficult.
I have no intention to modify the entire system, simply I though that changing this is more balanced for some professions, and until today I not have seen any other need to change anything; yes, the typical house rules, but not an important change as this one of modifing a complete category.

[markc]

DS,
 One again you bring up the cost table from RMC2 it has been adjusted in RMSS/FRP.

MDC