Topic: How do you manage some spells? (ask here)

[Marc R]

I'm pretty sure it's just your direct vicinity. Like objects you are holding or directly in contact with. . .

i.e. You cast heat liquid on soaking wet joe, it won't work, but if you cast it on a puddle joe is standing in, it just won't work directly in contact with joe, but it would heat most of the puddle, which will then heat the water next to joe's legs, etc, etc. . .at best it just offers you a chance to move before becoming soup.

I never got the feeling that those spells are intended to never be offensive, I just think they didn't want you to be boiling people's blood, or waiting for a rainy day to boil people in their clothes.

Like the teleported large rock squish. . . .

If you teleport a rock over my head, I'd say that odds are I'll have time to step away and avoid being squashed. . .unless I am unaware of you, or chained to the floor, or stuck climbing a narrow stairwell. . .

Creative use should have benefits, and sometimes that creativity should mean an almost definite kill. . . .if you set someone up to catch them perfectly, U spells are REALLY dangerous.

[Justin]

whew, okay, I am quite 'done' with the firewall discussion. (pun, though barely visible, totally intended.) Let's bring up at least one other spell...

|-------------------|
| SPELL: Poison Lore |
|-------------------|

...Off of Nightblade's lists. Or any other "grants X ranks of Y Lore" spell. I already commented in another thread(the professions used) that I don't like knowledge-granting spells. What is to keep a character from repeatedly casting the lore spell (esp. Poison Lore, I think that one's 1st or 2nd lvl) and writing down as much as possible each time. Eventually they would have thier own lore book. I would think they'd pick *something* up after all that writing. Force them to spend dp's on poison lore?

[Marc R]

It's magic. . .

Like, the "Diagnosis" spell off of Midwifery ways is a star trek sick bay. . .doesn't make the caster a doctor. . .you just know everything wrong with the patient.

Like, you could just have an empathic sense of how to use the poison, without actually understanding it. If you write it down, you have instructions for that poison. . .with no ranks, you'd not recognize another bottle as the same poison.

it's sort of like the prescription on the side of a bottle. "Take 2 by mouth 4 times a day, with meals." then a 2 page pamphlet sometimes. . .

Neither of those make you a doctor or a pharmacist, you just now have instructions about this bottle of poison. If I came over and poured out the contents, and poured in sugar, your character with no lores wouldn't know unless they cast again.

[Rivstyx]

You can't cast a pit spell if someone is above it?  Why?  Do they stop the earth from disapearing?

Weird man, weird

lynn

Yeah, The real issue is that you cannot try to explain magic with logic.  The two are mutually exclusive.  Logical magic would be science

[yammahoper]

Ah.  Well, I do not seek an explanation why it works, but only why it shouldnt work because of the presence of X where the spell is going to form a pit.  Will a castle wall stop it?  A tree stump?  Rain?  A large puddle?  A large puddle with living fish or tadpoles in it?

Even more to the point, I have never seen this odd rule about a barrier pit not froming because something is above where the pit will form.  It certainly isn't in the spell description (pg 156 RMFRP).

lynn

[ictus]

let the GM decide, often too much emphasis is placed on the rules, and not enough on GMs instinct, if you don't want to use GM instinct and common sense, D&D is a good alternative, where there is a rule somewhere for everything.

Personally I play it by ear, and decide on each situation as it comes along, and not always in the same way, after all life isn't perfect, so GMs don't have to be either.

[Sirius]

Case of the wall: I'd allow the 'target' a relatively easy maneuver to get out of the way, e.g. tumbling or whatever skill the player suggested based on the character.

Case of the pit case beneath a character: same thing, allow the character a chance to move before the spell casting was completed.

In either case, if the caster 'snapped' the spell (i.e. cast as instantaneous), the 'target' would have a much more difficult time avoiding the spell area, however they should still get some chance, either at a higher difficulty level, or perhaps a Qu based RR to get out of the way.

[Dark Schneider]

IMO the best method to manage the LORE spells is giving the caster 'resources' as we read in SOHK page 17, with a default bonus of +25 for low level spells and +50 for medium level spells, unless indicated another bonus in spell description.

Lore spells are usually very low level and I don't see correct that they gives you directly ALL knowledge needed with no development cost.

An example: we have a lay-healer with 5 ranks in diagnose (know. lvl. 4). This allow him to diagnose diseases (or wounds) with a maximum of rarity 4 (or medium dificulty), if he uses the lore spells, he gains an additional +25 bonus to maneuver rolls and his knowledge level is doubled to 8 (the maximum allowed by research).

The resources effect is that you can try a LORE maneuver with double his knowledge level (see bellow).

In SOHK we read: "A character cannot attemp a Lore maneuver if...(rarity)...exceeds twice the char. know. lvl.", and next we read: "If...(rarity)...do not exceed char. know. lvl., he can attemp maneuver with no resources. Otherwise, the maneuver requires research (and resources).".

So this tell us that with resources we have our knowledge level doubled as maximum.

[Justin]

The resources effect is that you can try a LORE maneuver with double his knowledge level (see bellow).

In SOHK we read: "A character cannot attemp a Lore maneuver if...(rarity)...exceeds twice the char. know. lvl.", and next we read: "If...(rarity)...do not exceed char. know. lvl., he can attemp maneuver with no resources. Otherwise, the maneuver requires research (and resources).".

So this tell us that with resources we have our knowledge level doubled as maximum.

Oh, interesting. Is it worded similarly anywhere in RM2? I don't remember any description other than "you get x ranks". I might have to update my players, tell them they know more than they thought.

[Dark Schneider]

But then here is a problem, Nightblade is a RM2 profession, and I am talking about RMFRP rules.

In that case I see correct "add x ranks", but then is GM job to limit the knowledge based in ranks with no base rules.

I really recommend to RM players the change to RMFRP.

[Justin]

I really recommend to RM players the change to RMFRP.

(see the Thanks to ICE thread, it's locked.)

[Setorn]

But then here is a problem, Nightblade is a RM2 profession, and I am talking about RMFRP rules.

In that case I see correct "add x ranks", but then is GM job to limit the knowledge based in ranks with no base rules.

I really recommend to RM players the change to RMFRP.

Or post in the RMFRP section of the forums?

[vroomfogle]

I've used a house rule for a while that lore spells give +50 to lore skills (unless the spell says otherwise)....otherwise it makes no sense to even develop the skill!    I don't use knowledge ranks, only the bonus so don't deal with adding ranks.

[Rivstyx]

I think thier is a ruleing that all wall spells cannot be cast if thier is an opposing object in the way. So the firewall spell would fail.
MDC

But in the case of a firewall spell even if you placed the wall within 1" of a target the target would still get severely burned.

[Rivstyx]

Ah.  Well, I do not seek an explanation why it works, but only why it shouldnt work because of the presence of X where the spell is going to form a pit.  Will a castle wall stop it?  A tree stump?  Rain?  A large puddle?  A large puddle with living fish or tadpoles in it?

Even more to the point, I have never seen this odd rule about a barrier pit not froming because something is above where the pit will form.  It certainly isn't in the spell description (pg 156 RMFRP).

lynn

It is for game mechanics.  The same argument is made for not being able to create a wall inside someone or teleport someone into a solid object.  It would make lower level spells much more powerful than they are now. Artificial limitations are used to regulate a spells power.  In the case of the pit I would rule it possible.

[Sirius]

Yeah, The real issue is that you cannot try to explain magic with logic.  The two are mutually exclusive.  Logical magic would be science

Well I for one approve of a scientific explanation of magical effects...  Not hard science maybe, but at least consistent and rational.

[markc]

I think thier is a ruleing that all wall spells cannot be cast if thier is an opposing object in the way. So the firewall spell would fail.
MDC

It has been a while since I read the fire wall spell but I think it says when you move through the wall you take damage, not if you are with in X feet you take damage.
MDC

But in the case of a firewall spell even if you placed the wall within 1" of a target the target would still get severely burned.

[Rivstyx]

I think thier is a ruleing that all wall spells cannot be cast if thier is an opposing object in the way. So the firewall spell would fail.
MDC

It has been a while since I read the fire wall spell but I think it says when you move through the wall you take damage, not if you are with in X feet you take damage.
MDC

But in the case of a firewall spell even if you placed the wall within 1" of a target the target would still get severely burned.

I believe once the wall is created it is normal fire.  You cannot stand 1 inch away from a raging bonfire without getting burnt.

[markc]

Riverstyx,
 I agree with you but it is not a normal fire but a magical fire. Also it might have changed in the new version of spell law for RMC as I do not have it. But IMO magical stuff is allways a problem or at least a time to make you take another look at things.
 Thier is another thread on if magic has to obay the laws of physics or not and this could be a case in point.

MDC

[Arioch]

I believe once the wall is created it is normal fire.  You cannot stand 1 inch away from a raging bonfire without getting burnt.

If it become normal fire once created, then it would not have a duration, but just burn as long as there is combustible material to feed the fire...