Topic: Monks and magical weapons

[yammahoper]

As mentioned before, Chi skills can allow a monk to hit creatures that need "magic" to hit.  This has many advantages for the monk, such as you can't take away his skill, he always has it with him and greater flexibility all around.

Meanwhile certain disadds are maintained, such as our monk still suffering ill effects from touching undead, GM control of access to the skill and even skill limitations (prep time, how long skill is in effect before new prep and skill check, even the type of creture that can be effected).

Enchanted gloves or the like could add an OB bonus, and a generous GM could declare the monk now strikes as magic, or even mithrel, holy or slaying.  Another choice would be for the monk to still strike as normal but be protected from undead drain, or even applying any bonus from such gloves to chi skill(s).

RM is remarkably flexible, and options to suit all games and their GM's shouldn't be to hard to come up with.

lynn

[dreameling]

I still have a rationale problem with the gloves. Gloves should really only affect the fists, yet martial arts potentially use the entire body. Still, whatever rubs you the right way.

- Timo -

[Arioch]

If it's only for the bonus to your OB I don't see any problem: a pair of magical gloves (or even just a single magical glove) may increase your offensive skills because they guide your attacks or magically instill martial arts knowledge in your mind (BTW this reminds me an anime where one of the main characters received a magical bruce lee style kung-fu suit which made him appear stronger... could be a nice idea for a cursed item ).

[Arioch]

As mentioned before, Chi skills can allow a monk to hit creatures that need "magic" to hit.  This has many advantages for the monk, such as you can't take away his skill, he always has it with him and greater flexibility all around.

Meanwhile certain disadds are maintained, such as our monk still suffering ill effects from touching undead, GM control of access to the skill and even skill limitations (prep time, how long skill is in effect before new prep and skill check, even the type of creture that can be effected).

Maybe it could also be ruled that spells like "Body Weaponry" allow you to hit "magic only" creatures (still keeping all the disvantages mentioned by you), but I'm not sure if ti would be a good idea. 

[dreameling]

If it's only for the bonus to your OB I don't see any problem: a pair of magical gloves (or even just a single magical glove) may increase your offensive skills because they guide your attacks or magically instill martial arts knowledge in your mind

Agreed. A magical interface to your brain and nervous system. This I can work with.

- Timo -

[Balhirath]

hmmm I have to say that IMO anything that gives a bonus to OB (As opposed to MM) is able to hit creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons.

However I also think that it's one of the things that each GM or Group have to deside for themselves

[Arioch]

hmmm I have to say that IMO anything that gives a bonus to OB (As opposed to MM) is able to hit creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons.

By the rules there are weapons that gives bonus to OB and are not magical. Just look at the TP, they're full of +X non-magical weapons.

[yammahoper]

Wow, a magical interface with the brain and nervous system?!!!  This is a major redefinition of how magic weapons work, and I must say, unless the item is intelligent, I don't like it.

lynn

[dreameling]

Wow, a magical interface with the brain and nervous system?!!! This is a major redefinition of how magic weapons work, and I must say, unless the item is intelligent, I don't like it.

You might be right. But how do magic weapons and skill-enhancing items officially work in RM?

- Timo -

[yammahoper]

Well, it is an item that provides a bonus to the PC's skill, so I always imagined superior and magic swords as being lighter, stronger, more flexible with a great edge (for superior swords) or a near unbreakable edge (for magic swords, i.e. never dull), while blunt weapons are harder and lighter, yet having the (magically provided) property of hitting as if they had more mass. 

A magic sword is as superior in craft as modern composites are to the steel the Titanic was built from.  Being almost unbreakable, their ability to penetrate armor would be far superior to mundane weapons, something the bonus simulates, yet fails to express superiority over mundane/superior weapons with the same bonus, i.e. two +10 swords, one magical, one superior, offer the same increased chance to score a better hit in melee.  Perhaps the answer is to remove bonuses from superior gear, or assign magic weapons armor slaying ability.

lynn

[Cormac Doyle]

NAH ... A "superior" craftsman can create a +10 weapon in the ways you have described above; an alchemist can use magic to approximate the same thing. The important this is that being magic allows the weapon to impinge upon beings that are not entirely components of the material plane, and thus cannot be hurt by mere physical attacks.

A magic sword that does additional crits (ice/fire/whatever) does this by engulfing the weapon with the elemental force (generally without damaging the weapon).

A magic sword that is "just" a bonus to attack is something that si only marginally better than the physical analogue (reference your alchemist spells ... to create a +15 sword requires that the component materials "naturally" be +10 ... this does not even count in the alchemist's "natural" craftsmanship) ... but because the magical enhancement enables the weapon to be present/affect the ethereal realm, it can attack creatures that are immune to normal weapons.

Note that there are VERY few creatures in RM that have this restriction ... you are all trying to port in D&D's silliness !

[mocking bird]

Wow, a magical interface with the brain and nervous system?!!!  This is a major redefinition of how magic weapons work, and I must say, unless the item is intelligent, I don't like it.

lynn

I agree that might be stretching it for magic weapons.  However how exactly does an item increase skills in which the item itself is not directly being used?  For example a helm that adds to SCSM or a ring that adds to duping.

[dreameling]

I agree that might be stretching it for magic weapons. However how exactly does an item increase skills in which the item itself is not directly being used? For example a helm that adds to SCSM or a ring that adds to duping.

Precisely. If an item increases your skill, how can it not somehow affect your cognitive functions (and possibly nervous system)?

And as to magic weapons ... Where precisely in the RMSS or RMFRP core rules set is it stated how magic actually works in weapons?

- Timo -

[pastaav]

And as to magic weapons ... Where precisely in the RMSS or RMFRP core rules set is it stated how magic actually works in weapons?

That is a setting question in my book.

[yammahoper]

The bonus has nothing to do with the nervous system.  It is magic!  The person the PC is talking to see's the PC in a slightly better way, better looking, better posture, better cloths...whatever.  You could even imagine one of the typical movie moments, when the PC rides through and the other guards all jump up, asking who was that he allowed through, and the duped NPC says that was someone important, mind your business.

ITS MAGIC   No techno reason is required.  If the PC was under a scanner when using his magic ring, the scanner reader might reply all he detected was 50 metric tons of banana's when the knight and the guard were talking, assumed it was a glitch.

lynn

[Balhirath]

hmmm I have to say that IMO anything that gives a bonus to OB (As opposed to MM) is able to hit creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons.

By the rules there are weapons that gives bonus to OB and are not magical. Just look at the TP, they're full of +X non-magical weapons.

As we were talking magical weapon, i took for granted that the bonus we were talking about was a MAGICAL bonus. Let me try again:

hmmm I have to say that IMO anything that gives a Magical bonus to OB (As opposed to MM) is able to hit creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons.

[Arioch]

The bonus has nothing to do with the nervous system.  It is magic!  The person the PC is talking to see's the PC in a slightly better way, better looking, better posture, better cloths...whatever.  You could even imagine one of the typical movie moments, when the PC rides through and the other guards all jump up, asking who was that he allowed through, and the duped NPC says that was someone important, mind your business.

ITS MAGIC   No techno reason is required.  If the PC was under a scanner when using his magic ring, the scanner reader might reply all he detected was 50 metric tons of banana's when the knight and the guard were talking, assumed it was a glitch.

lynn

I agree with you, mine were only suggestions. You don't really have to explain how it works, it's magic after all. But you can try to describe the effects of the items to the players and tell them how their characters "feel" that the item work. Usually I say to my players things like "as you put on the ring you begin to understand what the merchant says, as if you suddenly remembered a long forgotten language." or "you swing the sword and the edge almost seems to rush itself into your enemy, as if driven by a misterious force..."

[dreameling]

ITS MAGIC   No techno reason is required.

See, for me, that is not a techno reason.

It's just, well, logic. Even magic has to be logical somehow. Arbitrariness is the enemy of realism and believability. And yes, magic can be realistic and believable in a fantasy world context. Heck, it ought to be.

- Timo -

PS. I know this will totally surprise you, but my fellow players often tell me that I over-rationalize things. Especially magic.

[yammahoper]

Usually I say to my players things like "as you put on the ring you begin to understand what the merchant says, as if you suddenly remembered a long forgotten language." or "you swing the sword and the edge almost seems to rush itself into your enemy, as if driven by a misterious force..."

See, now THAT is cool.  A bit of wonder goes a long way.

lynn

[dreameling]

Logic need not take anything away from wonder. Obviously you present things in a certain way to the players, the way their characters experience them. They feel wonder. However, there's nothing stopping you from having solid logic behind all the magical wonder. When magic is consistent, when it at least seems to follow some sort of rules, even if these are hidden under layers upon layers of ignorant awe, then the world the characters inhabit is that much more believable. Real. There's nothing quite like real-seeming fantasy.

The players need not know how magic works. But the GM should.

- Timo -